Are Stash Tabs Pay To Win ? Science

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Veruski a écrit :

You wouldn't even have 100 tabs as a muler, you would learn to organize your items much more efficiently and thus save time :)

You have to compare apples to apples. Meaning an organized person muling would be compared to that same person being organized while simply having a shitload of tabs.

Likewise, load times, etc, have to be the same.

Clicking around with mules simply takes longer. When trading is involved, sometimes substantially longer. If you miss a trade, you just lost a fair bit as well.

It gives you more opportunities to waste time and make errors, because more work is involved.

An organised person either doesn't need 100 tabs or he keeps crappy items on purpose (which he can do in an organised way, but he's still being time inefficient with his ingame wealth). A muler simply wouldn't bother keeping crappy items. Those crappy items certainly don't give an advantage to the tabber (they're crappy after all), they actually make him waste time.

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Veruski a écrit :

If you only played 5 or 6 hours a week, that means you would be losing 1 hour to muling for every 15 hours or so of play time, would absolutely is substantial.

Shrug. At what % is it a solid gain? 1%? 2%? .5%?

A lot of people would consider even .1% to be a solid gain if all it requires is a few extra stash tabs to achieve ;)

If you waste ~7% of your play time with muling, you're doing it wrong (1 hour muling every 15 hours of play time). Let's say it's .1%, how is that significant? I mean you can feel that it's significant, but in reality it simply isn't. In reality, there are so many different factors (internal and external) regarding your ingame performance, that a miniscule time disadvantage due to muling doesn't have any measurable effect on it.

the bottom line is, stash tabs are a way of combining the desire to send money GGG's way, with actually getting something in return that's not just a shiny wrapper.
that's what makes them such a popular commodity.
people who already have multiple tabs, will obviously never even consider going back to 4.
people who don't, will eventually feel the obvious need to get more.
that's something which is very unlikely to happen if you replace "tabs" with "weapon MTX" or "Rhoa Pet".

thankfully, GGG are clever enough to prevent this P2W element from making the game itself P2W.
there are alternatives. work-around options, not matter how ugly, clumsy and far-fetched. and the better-prepared you are in ways that don't have anything to do with the game itself (case in point: hardware), the less clumsy those will seem.
so it's not Pay Or Fail, and that's good - but it is a paid advantage => P2W. and yes Xavderion, that is a fact.

I think we can /thread now.

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Xavderion a écrit :

Let's say it's .1%

so at the end of the day, you admit that it's a tangible advantage that can be written down.

thus, argument over. case closed.

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Veruski a écrit :

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Xavderion a écrit :

Let's say it's .1%

so at the end of the day, you admit that it's a tangible advantage that can be written down.

thus, argument over. case closed.

That's not the argument.
The argument is and has been about what is an acceptable amount of P2W. Any less than that amount and the game as a whole is "not P2W", and more than that amount and the game as a whole is "P2W".

You posit zero as your threshold. Not everyone shares that view.
0.1% may be low enough that it is acceptable to most people, and those people see the game as a whole as "not P2W", despite GGG selling an advantage in the cash shop.

Try to keep in mind that this is a threshold argument because there is no official definition of P2W. I do hope that people stop attempting to downplay stash tabs, though. It's one thing to say that they're acceptably low on the P2W scale, and something completely different to say that stash tabs by themselves offer no in-game advantage (which is trivially false when compared to the time and tools investment needed to run mule accounts).

Stash tabs could be made rewards in raffle for races like it was in the two week, so according to you guys it would become play to win to win. But that's up to GGG to decide. As is everything else.

@pneu

actually, there are a few people in here that ARE claiming that stash tabs provide "no advantage"

lol

so those were the people i was aimed at. if you want to say that "PoE is low on the p2win scale" i would agree with that.

also i would like to point out that PoE is not "passed my threshold" as far as p2win is concerned. if it was, i wouldn't play it.

i'm not, however, going to lie to myself and others and make the false claim that PoE doesn't offer in-game advantages for IRL $$$$. it does.

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Veruski a écrit :

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Xavderion a écrit :

Let's say it's .1%

so at the end of the day, you admit that it's a tangible advantage that can be written down.

thus, argument over. case closed.

Heh, I guess it's hard to refute my points, so you simplify them in a way that makes it easier for you. I'm ok with that. Just don't forget that this very small on-paper advantage doesn't extend to the real, practical PoE experience and is thus in fact non-existant.

all i have to do is start muling something, and that's the time, gone. thats the advantage. all that time spent muling is gone. period.

how hard is this?

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Veruski a écrit :

all i have to do is start muling something, and that's the time, gone. thats the advantage. all that time spent muling is gone. period.

how hard is this?

Nope, that's not it. Have you even read my posts? x)

yes, i actually did read them all, sadly.

your claim is that some time = zero time.

this is not true. it's basically as simple as that. you can keep saying it over, and over, and over...but you will just keep being wrong.

you might as well argue that 1 = 0

Good luck with that.