Are Stash Tabs Pay To Win ? Science

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jstq a écrit :

So payed stash space isn't the only way devs can sustain this game.

It's a big one though.

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Ironic, I think, that the only mtx people claim is 'pay to win' is one of the big sellers. I suppose that supports crusader_7's other, related little crusade: GGG should just make the game entirely pay to win.

And that's the core agenda here. It's not that crusader_7 is against pay to win. Oh no. They're trying to prove that the game is already pay to win in small ways, so hey, LET'S MAKE IT PAY TO WIN IN BIG WAYS!

Unfortunately, despite the condescending nature of the OP, whether or not PoE is pay to win is pretty much up to one entity, and it's none of us.

...the logic is stupefying, but that's what happens when you mistake adults for 8 year olds.

Next time, crusader_7, just write a nice big manifesto and email it directly to GGG.

Best of luck.

The ability to do recipes more easily, is an advantage mostly for self-found players. The people you see leading the ladders (aka winning), need their pay-to-have-an-advantage-that-can-possibly-lead-to-winning tabs to sustain shopping. Self-found players are definitely not winning anything in this game.

Anyway:

1.) Stash tabs are indispensable for serious play. People claiming that you can seriously play with mules and mule accounts, blah, blah, have too much time on their hands...

2.) Buying some tabs is the least you can do to support (donate, subscribe, award.. whatever) GGG, if you are playing the game a lot.

I think I bought 4 or 5 premium bundles across 1.5 years. That's little in comparison with how much some people spend on MTX, but still more than enough to comfortably play. It helps that I play all over the place, so the swag accumulated in ladder leagues, stays in read-only tabs until its needed. I still have whole tabs of chaos recipe jewellery, maps and other swag from Domination, sitting in Std waiting to be used, effectively doubling my stash. And Ambush is coming..

TLDR:

* It's pay to have a convenience / advantage, that could lead to winning
* It's the least you should do to support the game
* No, we absolutely don't need more 'P2W' MTX

[Removed by Support]

And I thought the p2w debate was over a long time ago? At least, for anyone who can use logic and reasoning, it is. There are literally no defend-able positions that can logically claim that PoE is not p2w.

I can see where is pay, but can't see where is win.
If someone buy 50.000 tabs it will not do him much good in terms of progression.
If someone wants in-game currency for real money, RMT'ing is more straight way than any stash manipulations.

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Stas88 a écrit :

I can see where is pay, but can't see where is win.
If someone buy 50.000 tabs it will not do him much good in terms of progression.
If someone wants in-game currency for real money, RMT'ing is more straight way than any stash manipulations.

Beyond the whole recipe thing, there was what I did... when they started the last league and had no item quantity (except on a few uniques) as a primary feature of that league I went out of my way and bought dozens of stash tabs of rare items that had those mods and were decent enough to be resalable. It may just be regular hardcore and softcore leagues now, but think of how much pure profit it was to sell off a dozen tabs of nothing but 20% IIQ gems alone. Now, spread that to even more tabs of various rares. I've done this everytime I suspect a item will become a legacy and skyrocket in price, and having a few dozen tabs to store them in gives me immense profitability for being able to sit on them until their price hit a point I'm willing to sell at. If I wasn't the kind of person I am (who blew through all those orbs doing yolo mass crafting and buying everything I ever wanted or hiring people to powerlevel me) who wasted most of it then it might of had a real in-game impact, for those that rmt it would basically be christmas year round.

Basically when I wanted to map I paid people to do it with me, when i wanted an item I bought it, when i wanted a item that wasn't for sale I made it, when I wanted to level I hired people to powerlevel me and all of that was due to legacy flipping through stash tabs. Someone who wanted to sell them to a rmt very well could do this as well.


edit - and of course the only thing I've ever bought with my points were tabs, as they are immensely game changing for me and... honestly I dislike all but a few of the mtx as they look far worse then the ones in game (and a few I really hate). Its a few like the summon skeleton statues mtx and such that I enjoy (but don't get because they clash with my aesthetics), just not as much as another pack of tabs :/

So if I actually liked how they look I would be more willing to buy them, with the current state I'd be more willing to pay to HIDE them from sight....

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BisuProbe a écrit :

for anyone that want to play this game anywhere above casual level, 4 stash tabs is simply not enough. sure u can make mule accounts/chars, but it becomes very annoying and a hassle.

I've played a lot of free to plays by now, and not a single one has allowed you to progress above 'casual level' without putting in at least a few bucks. The question I pose is, what's wrong with that? A free to play game must operate under the expectation that anyone serious about the game will contribute something eventually.

You're still ultimately paying 'for convenience' (as you noted, you can do it the mule way, but it's annoying and a hassle) rather than to flat-out 'win', which is the big old grey area in which the OP is cavorting. The sad truth is, as I said above, the biggest seller in PoE's mtx offerings is the one closest to pay to win. The only one to even vaguely affect the gameplay.

That's a fact.

With that in mind, no one should be under the illusion that the game would be the same if GGG's idea of 'pay to win' had included stash tabs, if they'd stuck to entirely aesthetic mtxes like pets and skins. It wouldn't.

Again: so what? It's a business. They drew their own line in the sand, declaring what they felt to be P2W and what they didn't (and it's actually a very clear line, even if you don't agree with it), and must stick to that. At the same time, they're obviously trying to make money. From a purely financial standpoint, going free to play and then saying 'we're not pay to win' and indeed, having the glaring majority of your mtxes as purely aesthetic, is pretty bloody stupid.

Anyone doubting that only has to go into the Google Play store and check out the top grossing games. They're all free, and they're all totally pay to win.

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Stas88 a écrit :

I can see where is pay, but can't see where is win.
If someone buy 50.000 tabs it will not do him much good in terms of progression.
If someone wants in-game currency for real money, RMT'ing is more straight way than any stash manipulations.

If stash tabs were pay to win, I'd be number one.

Then again, it's not really a scale. Once you clear, say, 40 tabs, you're pretty much set for this 'crafting' business.

And that's another way in which tabs are not pay to win: with pay to win, the more you pay, the stronger you get. And that holds into the hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

Stash tabs? You hit a functional ceiling before long.

At the VERY worst, I'd say stash tabs might be 'pay $XX to be part of the competitive game', and that's still stretching it. And for the last time: so what? You want to get serious with something, you put some cash in. Tennis? Get a decent racquet. Running? Invest in some good shoes. Computer gaming? Get a decent rig. And so on and so forth.

You don't HAVE to take it to that level, either. You can just fart-arse about with a crappy tennis racquet with friends, or jog occasionally in your sneakers or whatever.

I presume that anyone investing in stash tabs wants to take the game beyond a casual level. Or, as in my case, has nothing better to do with all that GGGold...

Am I the only one who finds it reasonable to outsource challenge items to different characters and leave them in their inventory? It's not like there is a drastic limitation on how much characters you can create.

All aside GGG being very liberal about account creation numbers, for better or for worse.


Probably joke on me for replying to a troll thread.

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Jiero a écrit :

and having a few dozen tabs to store them in gives me immense profitability for being able to sit on them until their price hit a point I'm willing to sell at.

Well that may be a point of view... But I can only say it from my experience: A lot more than about 60-80 stashtabs is a pain in the ass for me. I got about 50+ now and keep the stuff that I don´t need dailywise on other chars. And if I just hoard it to sell it - maybe - one day I keep it on other characters. I am clearly better off with not carrying around a whole lot of crap that I don´t need now and the small inventories of mulechars make it possible to keep exact groups of items in perfect overview. The scrolling up and down permanently to find your stuff is not everybodies thing.

What concerns the recipes OP was talking about: Try it and you will find out that it is an even bigger pain in the ass to collect the demanded Items and bring them into a row --- with stashtabs or without, doesn´t matter. I tried it and left it ;) No recipes for me any more. I am better off to sell wisdom scrolls than doing alch recipe...

But I guess everybody got different preferences, and that is why I say the stashtabs are NOT pay to win.