Are Stash Tabs Pay To Win ? Science

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Fruz a écrit :

This is somewhat true, when you start.

It vanishes the more you play obviously ... It's not because you don't have the - said - hard counter of the moment that you don't win/play well.

Pro players always have a tremendous amount of IP to spend ... because they probably have bought everything already.
Other players need to make some choices compared to those who pay, granted.

I got at least 600 hours spent, and still felt massively restricted :D. Felt compelled to buy a lot of rune pages and several champions and it helped a lot.

I got now enough runes and champions to do jungle, top and support properly. However, I lack certain important adcs and a lot of mid champions, which means that in ranked I very much state "can't do mid nor adc". This specially affects when one wants to organize "trades" in champion select, since both players need to own both champions to be able to do trades.

Well I've been playing LoL from the start, and I don't have that many rune pages, neither have I all the champions ( not playing much recently ).

I know that there are some roles where I'll have less of a good setup, and I know what I can do best, I just play according to that :).

That doesn't make me feel that I'm at a disadvantage compared to other player.
Runes do matter or the first levels mainly, but ultimately, you get at a point where you hit your comfort zone without paying.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

They are a very weak form of pay2play.

wait, what?
no. it is safe to say with complete certainty, tabs are not Pay To Play.
you can play with extra tabs or without them.

but they are a P2W element. a variable-advantage one. see "spectrum" (initially defined by Veruski, then expanded by me and B15h09).

and before you pounce again, Fruz - read my previous posts, this time.
how do I know you didn't read previously? because you can't distinguish between a P2W element and a P2W game, and you still think those posts are about my PC being crappy and me QQing about hardware.

- not important actually -

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johnKeys a écrit :

you still think those posts are about my PC being crappy and me QQing about hardware.

But they are. Additional storage is an element that is available for free to anyone with a decent PC. Your PC limits you from that, so from your perspective, it's a P2W element. It's a perspective problem, not a game problem.

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b15h09 a écrit :

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johnKeys a écrit :

you still think those posts are about my PC being crappy and me QQing about hardware.

But they are. Additional storage is an element that is available for free to anyone with a decent PC. Your PC limits you from that, so from your perspective, it's a P2W element. It's a perspective problem, not a game problem.

I think we both agreed on the "variable advantage" part there, b15h09.
variable, because it's a game-changer for a comparison between 2 people with my crappy set-up, a mild advantage for 2 people with your gaming beast, and anything in between.
variable, but still an advantage.
a paid advantage, unlike the game's other paid features/elements (MTX) which are not advantages.

that's what "Pay To Win element" means, Fruz. in a nutshell.
see? I gave you the ultimate TL;DR.
good guy John Keys.
but you'll still need to figure out the difference between "P2W element" and "P2W game" for yourself.
unless you just want to keep on trolling.

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johnKeys a écrit :

that's what "Pay To Win element" means, Fruz. in a nutshell.
see? I gave you the ultimate TL;DR.
good guy John Keys.
but you'll still need to figure out the difference between "P2W element" and "P2W game" for yourself.
unless you just want to keep on trolling.

I would agree if it would have a real impact in the game.
Let's say than it's so insignificant to me that it doesn't change anything at the end, but convenience.
If people had only one tab and not 4, and that the stash management would be extremely tedious then ... there as an example, if would definitely become not - unsignificant and eventually even impact races.


So to you : it's P2W, whatever the impact.
To me : it's not P2W if it does not have an impact but convenience.


Considering your reaction, you're more "fair play" than what I thought, I'll take my last post back and edit it.
I still maintain that the part about reading is about the kettle and the pot tho ...

Storage is an advantage. That advantage can be paid for, or it can be had for free. Doesn't seem to even be an element, to me. Just a few ways to skin a cat, one of which helps GGG develop the game.

Saying it's P2W would be like saying certain theoretical zones your PC can't run are Pay 2 Play elements, as you'd need to upgrade to get them to run. Just because it's Pay 2 Play for you, doesn't mean the game is Pay 2 Play in any way.

calling lol not p2w game deserves a medal
-play lol (facepalm)
-like its p2w model (facepalm x2)
-calling its not p2w (facepalm x1000)

It’s shocking that some people want to label this game as pay to win… This game gives you access to everything for free. Most games don’t. This game doesn’t slow you down if you aren’t paying. Many games do. There’s no up-front cost for this game.
Do stash tabs give an advantage? Of course they do. However, it is a small advantage, and it becomes redundant once you reach between 10 and 20 tabs.
Let’s compare PoE to other games like it.

Marvel Heroes: Everything is unlockable, but you can also buy boosts for your heroes and you can buy the heroes themselves. Fortune cards are also in the game to allow players to buy more boosts, costumes and things.
Diablo: Pay up front
Grim Dawn: Pay up front
Titan Quest: Pay up front
Val Helsing: Pay up front
Torchlight: Pay up front

So, if we compare this list. PoE is easily the least amount of investment for the most return. This is even if you include a few stash tabs. Torchlight and Titan Quest are incredible deals when you get them on sale, but PoE is an incredible deal at all times.

If you invest your money into adding a few stash tabs you can increase your ability to do well in the game. I’ll gladly agree to that. But stash tabs are not enough to label a game pay to win. They provide convenience instead of progression. The other games above either have their progression blocked by money or they allow you to circumvent progression with cash.