Are Stash Tabs Pay To Win ? Science

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mazul a écrit :

However, at the highest tier of competitive playing, it doesn't matter since all parties have all runes and champions unlocked.

In PoE, at higher tier of competitive playing ... it means racing .... and now, it means lvl 90+ within what ? 5~6 days ? where those tabs don't matter, basically.

And in ~95+% of the cases, well built generic rune pages are enough, and if you know what you have, you pick accordingly.

Community, the problem is 95% you, and only 5% troll thread creators.



See? Only 5% Crusader's fault for this thread being as popular as it has been. The rest falls on all of you for bumping this. (Oh, and I didn't get posts after sid's most recent in my chart. edit @Fruz: But I did preemptively include myself.)

edit @ Charan's post below because I am not bumping this: I am definitely not saying you can't use a troll thread for inspiration for your own constructive criticism. However, you don't have control over the opening post or the thread title, so invariably you will be serving the trolls interest as you bump the thread. The best plan, as far as posting goes, is still to ignore them, and to carry whatever inspiration you may have tripped upon with you, for use in future civilized discussion.

Oh, and to answer the OP: No. They are not pay2win. They are a very weak form of pay2play. Packratting a bunch of stuff isn't a sign you're winning, it's a sign you've played for quite a while and are a packrat.

/thread

You can get in there now Scrotie :']

But I'm getting involved too much in this thread, you are right on that.
There are some troll subject that one can throw and it will raise trolling, will call for QQs and for people arguing with them of course, that's what we have now.

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Fruz a écrit :

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mazul a écrit :

However, at the highest tier of competitive playing, it doesn't matter since all parties have all runes and champions unlocked.

In PoE, at higher tier of competitive playing ... it means racing .... and now, it means lvl 90+ within what ? 5~6 days ? where those tabs don't matter, basically.

And in ~95+% of the cases, well built generic rune pages are enough, and if you know what you have, you pick accordingly.

Just in mid you need: ad vs ad, ad vs ap, ap vs ap and ap vs ad runepage. Adc's can get away with 1 runepage.

In top lane you have ad vs ad, ad vs ap, ap vs ap, ap vs ad, ryze vs ad, ryze vs ap, atk speed vs ad, atk speed vs ap. That's 8 rune pages. (and yes if you are a top main you need to know how to play ryze)

If you don't get the proper rune page, depending on which match-up you get, you may actually be at severe disadvantage. Ryze vs Pantheon is one such example.

The early lv1-3 trades, the rush to getting lv2 first, all are very sensitive to rune choices.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Community, the problem is 95% you, and only 5% troll thread creators.

Pie

See? Only 5% Crusader's fault for this thread being as popular as it has been. The rest falls on all of your for bumping this. (Oh, and I didn't get posts after sid's most recent in my chart. edit @Fruz: But I did preemptively include myself.)

Oh, and to answer the OP: No. They are not pay2win. They are a very weak form of pay2play. Packratting a bunch of stuff isn't a sign you're winning, it's a sign you've played for quite a while and are a packrat.

/thread

I like pie.

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Fruz a écrit :

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Crusader_7 a écrit :

OR, drop them in your 200 Supporter Tabs Of Pay To Win. And eventually, BINGO, you get an alch.

And while someone took some time to get that Alch, another better/more optimized player just cleared half a map during that time and got 10 times more currency out of it.

I agree with Fruz. You DO have alternatives to extra stash:
1. Mule accounts. Annoying, time-consuming, but feasible.
2. Trade. I see many posts where people say "flip items for a day and you can make dozens of Ex". I don't like trading, but this does seem to work.
3. Play with friends. You don't all need to have 10 yellow armours and wait for that yellow amulet, you can share items amongst your stashes. No disadvantage here.

So, actually stash tabs are just "pay for convenience" or "pay to get a little richer without resorting to the alternatives". Really not p2w.

BTW: If p2w really is completely unacceptable, then you should resort to using a really old computer. More oomph on your rig definitely affects your safety and killspeed muchmuchmuch more than some stash space.

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CharanJaydemyr a écrit :

Don't see how this prolonged LoL subdiscussion is adding to the topic, which I read as "are stash tabs pay to win?" which necessitates a definition of pay to win. Please link the LoL stuff to that please, for we MOBA uninitiated. ;)

Well, I did throw a comparison with LoL, that is derailing :


I'll add just that on the topic : People don't play 100% of the champions, and by the time that they can master a lot of different combinations at high level .... they should have enough rune page.

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Treffnix a écrit :

BTW: If p2w really is completely unacceptable, then you should resort to using a really old computer. More oomph on your rig definitely affects your safety and killspeed muchmuchmuch more than some stash space.

I lol'd :]

SNES speedruns are the only non P2W things lol!

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CharanJaydemyr a écrit :

Don't see how this prolonged LoL subdiscussion is adding to the topic, which I read as "are stash tabs pay to win?" which necessitates a definition of pay to win. Please link the LoL stuff to that please, for we MOBA uninitiated. ;)

Following pictures shows the 3 lanes that exist in league of legends: top, mid and bot.



In League of Legends, you can queue up to the matchmaking system through either solo/duo or 5-man. The solo/duo queue is known as "solo queue".

The solo queue has a specific meta in which 1 player goes top, 1 player goes mid, 1 stays in jungle and 2 players go bottom. It rarely if ever changes from that meta.

There are at least two main forms of "winning" in LoL: you can win the game and you can win your lane.
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When you win/lose a game in League of Legends, you receive a currency known as "ip". You can use "ip" to unlock champions, runes and extra runepages.

Here is a picture of a runepage and some runes:

Runepages are basically pages where you can put "runes" which boost the stats of your champion. You can only select one runepage per game and each runepage has limited slot for runes.

I think you start with like 3-4 rune pages without buying extra through ip or with real money. Evidently, the more rune pages and runes you have the more options you got.
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The difference between a person who spends money on LoL and someone who doesn't is that the former gets access to more choices faster.

I am now arguing that the reality is that for a gigantic amount of the playerbase, the difference does matter for winning your lane.

Besides how important having certain rune pages is depending on your lane, it is also very important what champions you got access too.

For instance, in mid lane, if opponent chooses the champion "Nidalee", a paying player is more likely to own one of the best counters there is against "Nidalee": "Yasuo". If a non-paying player does not have access to Yasuo, it means that the paying player is at massive advantage.

Another case: enemy chooses "Leona" at bottom and you have neither Morgana, Alistar nor Thresh. Suddenly you are at massive disadvantage since you don't own 3 major counters, which means that it is far more likely that you will lose lane.
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TL.DR. In League of Legends, choosing the right champion and right rune pages matters and therefore a lot of non-paying players are at significant disadvantage. It is easy for many players to Pay to Win lane.

This is somewhat true, when you start.

It vanishes the more you play obviously ... It's not because you don't have the - said - hard counter of the moment that you don't win/play well.

Pro players always have a tremendous amount of IP to spend ... because they probably have bought everything already.
Other players need to make some choices compared to those who pay, granted.

It's the same than LoL at the end : you can circumvent it quite easily = not pay to win.
It won't be so that you can win while being bad at the game either.

When you compare PoE's business model to other F2P games you should be able to recognize a huge difference. If you don't see that difference you are exceptionally dumb, as in drooling-from-the-mouth dumb.

If you do recognize that difference and go to the forums to apply the same term for PoE and games that become unplayable without spending money (i.e. pay2win) it is pretty obvious that your motives are less than pure.