MANA LEECH IS RUINED
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ITT: People who see in ones and zeroes.
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" Beware, BM is gonna be OP in couple of messages as it seems LOL. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" I chuckled a bit, and this is my general sentiment towards the "BUT MY BUILD WORKS!" arguments. |
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NO NO NO NO
This is not what we should do to SALVAGE our characters. TOTEMS suck, and we only have so many levels and passives to use. When a person commits, it's basically done because a restat can cost several exalteds in regrets. NO, fix the mana leech. Plain and simple. OR, make Lavianga's Mana potions standard to witches. DO SOMETHING to solve the leech, because at this point witches are nothing but jailbait in the game. --They cannot duel because mana is so intense and takes so long they die standing still --They stand still for as long as 10-30 seconds waiting for pots to work to attack. I attack, pot, wait TEN SECONDS to attack, then attack, POT AGAIN, and by the time I kill 1 group of enemies I am out of pots. I even use hallowed mana pots that are trans'ed to have only 4.7 seconds of time to refill, but they refill only at about 170 mana person, so I have to wait the full 4.7 seconds to cast ONE ONE ONE molten shell that is 4L, and pot twice to cast my 6L uber LMP fireball. --Mana regen is !@#$, it has never helped --Clarity is runny diarrhea because it's 3x slower than a sanctified mana pot and reseves 440 mana when on lv 20. I mean, 30 mana per second isn't even an atom in a bucket, let alone a drop in a bucket --Imagine how hard it is to deal with this mana issue when using something like discipline at lv 21? It's impossible. --Now imagine using any aura, so your 1000 mana is reserved down to 600, it costs 320 to cast 1 molten shell and you have to pot once to use 1 fireball, then wait. I WAS WEARING INFERNAL MANTLE, so I was taking 100% more spell damage 100% of the time because my mana was always empty. I had to sell my 6L Infernal Mantle because I was dying like a noob --THEN LIFE LEECH IS BOTCHED FOR GHOST REAVERS, firstly because witches never do enough damage to really even make it worthwhile. For example, I was doing 8k DPS with curses and stuff before the patch and only was getting 100-240 ES per hit, meanwhile I was taking 2000-4000 damage in fights) WITCHES HAVE BEEN RUINED. THEY WERE PRETTY LAME FROM THE GET-GO BUT FOR PvM THEY WERE FUN. NOW THEY CANNOT EVEN PvM WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE LOW MANA NOOBS. I WAS BETTER OFF WITH LESS 8,000 ES BEFORE THE ES NODES WERE RE-WORKED IN THE VAAL PATCH, BUT INSTEAD HAVING A FUNCTION GHOST REAVER. IMAGINE, WHAT WOULD YOU CHOOSE, A PAPER VS REAL LIFE THING: 14,000 ES WITH NO GHOST REAVER, OR 8,000 ES WITH A FUNCTIONING GHOST REAVER? I CAN GUARENTEE THAT THE 8,000 ES WITCH BUILD WOULD HOLD HER GROUND AND NEVER RUN. ES DRAINS LIKE WATER, SO 14K MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF HOW LONG TIL YOU HAVE TO RUN AWAY TO REGEN. Dual Striker Leech Tank, creator since 11/2014 https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1533986/page/1Umbra_the_Wolf Dernière édition par Umbra_the_Wolf#0636, le 19 mars 2014 à 12:40:31
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I would agree on the skillgem, not so much the keystone. It is really funny considering how useless BM is in endgame compared to how strong the skillgem is. One of the reasons why nobody wants to play with 4l is that a lot of people consider a BM-gem mandatory for their skill (propably because they only have about 4 mana left after auras).
" Considering that you have to survive and sustain your skills using Mana-Leech + Life-Leech or Life-Leech + BM is the same. At the point you have to use Mana-Leech it is normally always better to just use BM and the Life-Leech (and propably Life-Regen) that is already there. That is exspecially true for casters. Most normal skills have incredible low mana-cost and are easy to sustain with some 2-3% mana-leech. The only exception might be Multistrike, but considering that it also is one of the largest dps-increases it fine to make it harder to sustain. The point the original poster made was about spells. And I totally agree that for spells the leech-changes are terrible. A spell-caster has to invest in Mana-Leech and Life-Leech anyway, so he already loses two slots. There is really no reason to not use BM and Life-Leech except for the problem, that this won't work with CI. Attackers still have the option to just get 1-2% more mana-leech on gear and they are fine. Casters however might have more problems with that, since they can't adjust as easy. And there is a very simply reason: Without using EB a life-based character will always have more life than mana (well I have never seen a different thing, normally without EB people reach about 2-3k Mana at max, most not even 1k. That means they have about twice as much Life as Mana. So Life-Leech is capped at 20% of 5.000 which is 1.000 Life per second. While Mana would be capped at 12,5% of 3.000 which is 375 Mana per Second. Even if you consider the fact that the BM-Gem doubles the cost of skills, Life-Leech has a higher base-value, a higher leech-cap and characters normally have a lot more life than mana to increase the cap even further. So Life-Leech + BM would be a lot better than Life-Leech + Mana-Leech. With CI the options to run Life-Leech + BM are gone while your Mana-Pool isn't that much higher so you are stuck with the inferior Life-Leech + Mana-Leech option. And we are not talking attacks, attacks are incredible easy to sustain mana for, since they cost nothing and can actually use the Leech on Equip. To be fair this issue isn't actually new. Mana as a CI-Char always sucked. With the old leech it was easy to stack mana-leechs fire a barrage, reposition and fire another barrage (well I'm used to fireball^^). Since you leeched enough that it kept recovering your mana for some seconds after attacking it was easy to reposition yourself in a fight. Now you stop leeching since leeches don't stack, which means you are immidiatly punished for moving. With lower damage the problem is that you can't reach the leech-cap anymore because shotgunning enemies with Fireball or FP doesn't count anymore. It is definitly a problem for casters, however it is not really new. If you reached leech cap before the patch and are just attack without moving nothing changed. Exspecially with a GMP-Fireball you propably don't reach the cap anymore because each individual fireball is not dealing enough damage, in that case the only option is to switch to LMP since it decreases the mana-multiplier and makes each fireball hit harder. |
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Clarity + couple of auras nodes + couple of mana/mana regeneration nodes is usually enough to sustain most 4~5L skill, and if there are some minor downtime, it's not such of a big deal.
Plus there are mana pots, many people may not like them, but with the way leech works now, they just need to deal with it and mana pots are a solution. Spell caster don't necessarily have to invest into mana leech, some points into the tree for mana regeneration works also ( if done well ). The system is far from perfect, it still needs quite much tuning, but it's definitely manageable, people need to invest a little in regeneration now, and eventually look for mana related nodes on shields/daggers/wands/scepters. And if 6L costs too much to be spammed with just a few points in regeneration + clarity, that's a damn good thing, because it should be more expensive anyway. But we have players like the one who wrote the message right before yours that want everything for granted and basically not have to deal with resources management but just with some leech, that think that it's not normal to have some down-times if one doesn't invest a minimum into mana management .... The guy is even comparing clarity to pots to try to make it look bad :/. Witches are fine because they have easy mana related nodes right at the start of their tree anda more not far away, and are close to 26% buff effectiveness + eventually inner force to boost clarity if needed. The bad drawback of the leech changes to me is that it encourages player to use slow cast/attack speed builds, and that does not really promote build diversity :S. It also heavily penalizes shotgunning ... SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Dernière édition par Fruz#6137, le 19 mars 2014 à 13:32:02
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" Very good post. The disparity between blood magic and mana leech for casters is just insane. The "double cost" of using blood magic doesn't even come close to compensating. I also like how you correctly point out that mana has been an issue for ES users (well - casters specifically) basically forever. So, why are they making it even worse? Because there are a few particular overpowered builds? Which begs the question: why not target the overpowered builds specifically? Dernière édition par tikitaki#3010, le 19 mars 2014 à 14:01:17
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So, why are all these casters with mana issues not going low life by reserving life for auras with Blood Magic support and taking advantage of Pain Attunement?
And the idea that mana regen, from the tree and from items, is "worthless" is a joke. Mana regen, with the kind of mana pool that an INT based caster (like the Witch), is going to have a huge effect on your ability to sustain. Again, in Domination I managed to support lvl 17 Incinerate+GMP+Faster Proj+Life Leech+Added Chaos while running lvl 15 Arctic Armor. 180% increased mana regen from the tree, coupled with gear choices, and Clarity + Discipline + Blood Magic + Reduced Mana. If I continue the build there will be more regen, 100% uptime on lvl 20 AA is the plan there (what elemental reflect mob?). EDIT: Almost forgot, the only time that my mana pool even drops on that character is in a -regen map. No, it can't do blood magic map mods, it does fine in chaos damage maps unless coupled with -max. No, I don't have Shav's. L2resourcemanagement. Dernière édition par Sinnesteuer#7507, le 19 mars 2014 à 14:08:50
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" Let me note that when we say this, we are not saying that mana is necessarily handled properly. What we are saying is that you are clearly doing something wrong or purposely attempting to not use an available mechanic if you cannot make any of your builds that use leech work at all with the new leech mechanics. It's not hard to adapt until things are changed. It's not even a matter of "l2p", it's a matter of stop trying to be "above" the use of things like regen and flasks because you "feel you shouldn't need them". Dernière édition par Xendran#1127, le 19 mars 2014 à 14:07:37
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" Making your build work by investing in something like 7+ mana regen nodes is not something to be proud of. *facepalm* Contrast this to just grabbing more life nodes and using blood magic, which: 1) Makes you more survivable and 2) Offers substantially more leech rate. It looks like you didn't really understand Emphasy's post. Yes, you can make mana regen "work." But at what cost? ;) Dernière édition par tikitaki#3010, le 19 mars 2014 à 14:09:05
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