Your game might be broken when....

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

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allbusiness a écrit :

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Clocksimus a écrit :

The bosses are very thematic and therefore I believe her attack is a hybrid damage skill. Since it hit Colby with max evasion twice in a row I'm leaning towards this being a skill that can not be evaded but given that he was getting hit by a stupid amount of projectiles, he could have rolled that 1/20 hit at the wrong times. Will stick with can not be evaded for now as a "theory". No proof.

I'm leaning towards either fire/phys like the base type or something much more nasty, fire/chaos. We all know no one runs around with 75% chaos resist in merciless. You try to get above 0% and hope for the best. I didn't see etup's death but I would be interested to see a CI character die to this attack. If it is hybrid chaos damage CI might be the best build to counter this boss. Stopping half it's damage upfront and only having to deal with the remaining half.

Etup died in half a second with 7k armor + 5k health.


http://www.twitch.tv/etup/c/3854044


This isn't like it's telegrapphed. The bitch fucking rains down spines constantly in an area completely cutting it off. If you noticed, she can actually do it more than once, thus cutting off multiple areas. No ability in the game is like this. None. Any ability that does that much damage to any character is typically telegraphed in this game like Dominus Slam or Vaal Slam.

If by none you exclude half of the other new invasion bosses:P Did you shit your pants when you saw the big spine boss use what I'll refer to as vaal incinerate on you? I know I did.

No other one shot mechanic in the game can cut off multiple areas at the same time. If you watched Etup's death you'll notice that she was raining down spikes on two separate sides of the room. Please stop trying to argue or throw off the topic of why this bitch is so dumb. The boss is clearly overtuned, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't play Invasion, or has yet to face her in Merciless.

The Etup fight was much better view of how the boss plays out. Now I'm pretty sure there is no physical part to her rain damage. Colby got hit for about 1k each hit and so did Etup. So it's either purely elemental or chaos.

*gets ready to embrace more hate
Etup died the moment he stopped moving without their being a recent rain area. He got hit by the first rain but because he was moving only took 1 hit which was very manageable. There seems to be a reasonable amount of time between each rain. A strat of keep moving til you avoid a rain, dps for a short period and then go back to moving to avoid rain once more. This is what I would do to fight this boss. She seems very unforgiving. If you stand too long anywhere you are basically dead. He could have had her I think but the stigma surrounding her made him too scared to commit to the fight.

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Etup died the moment he stopped moving without their being a recent rain area. He got hit by the first rain but because he was moving only took 1 hit which was very manageable. There seems to be a reasonable amount of time between each rain. A strat of keep moving til you avoid a rain, dps for a short period and then go back to moving to avoid rain once more. This is what I would do to fight this boss. She seems very unforgiving. If you stand too long anywhere you are basically dead. He could have had her I think but the stigma surrounding her made him too scared to commit to the fight.

That's good analyzing and all but what point are you getting at? You think she isn't overtuned for such strong mechanics?

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LOL, biggest joke of the year. Bet me your stash.

Pretty sure my math was right. I showed the formula.

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Clocksimus a écrit :

The Etup fight was much better view of how the boss plays out. Now I'm pretty sure there is no physical part to her rain damage. Colby got hit for about 1k each hit and so did Etup. So it's either purely elemental or chaos.

*gets ready to embrace more hate
Etup died the moment he stopped moving without their being a recent rain area. He got hit by the first rain but because he was moving only took 1 hit which was very manageable. There seems to be a reasonable amount of time between each rain. A strat of keep moving til you avoid a rain, dps for a short period and then go back to moving to avoid rain once more. This is what I would do to fight this boss. She seems very unforgiving. If you stand too long anywhere you are basically dead. He could have had her I think but the stigma surrounding her made him too scared to commit to the fight.

He didn't get hit by the rain, otherwise he would have straight died.


The boss cut off two areas with the rain, and on top of throwing rain of spines, she can also throw normal projectiles at you that do absurd damage too. The only way to fight this boss is to basically offscreen her or have absurd move speed and high attack speed/move speed and pray that you don't get touched by the rain or get hit by a projectile spine. Oh, I didn't even mention that she has three attacks, not just one.


1) She throws horizontal projectiles that won't one shot you, can be blocked by a shield, but do about half your HP.

2) She throws Rain of Arrow like skill that can one shot you. Did I mention you it's fast as shit too?

3) She plasters an area with a Spine AoE skill that works like Firestorm that again can one shot you. Oh, and she has no delay on this skill, so if she decides to plaster like three parts of the screen, you're pretty fucked.


This is all on top of her being disguised by her mob spawn, and moving fast as shit. I didn't even mention her HP isn't anything to snuff at, as I have actually attempted to kill her in Merciless and I couldn't even put a dent in her. And before you say nonsense like you have more experience than me, I've fought this particular boss multiple times, played through multiple maps, haven't died yet, and have played since prior to the existence of a complete Act 2.

Apparently I'm the only person who actually looks at the monsters as I'm killing them.

But until other people do, I feel absolutely no sympathy. The "I didn't notice she was there" excuse will garner precisely zero sympathy from me.

That said, I can see a lot of poster here a trying to paint me into a position I don't actually endorse. Just because I believe you should be aware you are fighting these bosses, and thus have the opportunity to run away from them and live to fight another day, does not mean that I think these bosses are fair. I said as much earlier, in one of my first posts in this thread:

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

...I think it's fair to say both characters should have lived.

However, I do not believe said immediate action should have involved pressing forward and facing the boss, at least not from a risk/reward perspective. No, the best immediate action was to back away and progress through the zone using an alternate route which didn't involve the risk of fighting such abominations.

If GGG wants players to actually face those dangers once they see them, as opposed to running away like cowards, they're going to have to couple Invasion bosses with significant loot. Don't get me wrong, I'm with Clocksimus as far as nerfing the bosses themselves: keep them brutally difficult. That part is fine. But make them worth the effort to actually defeat.

The Etup video demonstrates this concept rather well. I barely even saw her, but Etup knows very well exactly what it is he's fighting; you can't say he didn't understand the risks. Of course, he dies anyway, because instead of running away, he actually tries to fight. That is the problem: not "omfg I had no chance to react," but that the risk/reward decision too heavily favors avoidance.

Until then, whenever you see that boss, you know she's not going to drop anything worthwhile, so just run.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Apparently I'm the only person who actually looks at the monsters as I'm killing them.

But until other people do, I feel absolutely no sympathy. The "I didn't notice she was there" excuse will garner precisely zero sympathy from me.

That said, I can see a lot of poster here a trying to paint me into a position I don't actually endorse. Just because I believe you should be aware you are fighting these bosses, and thus have the opportunity to run away from them and live to fight another day, does not mean that I think these bosses are fair. I said as much earlier, in one of my first posts in this thread:

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

...I think it's fair to say both characters should have lived.

However, I do not believe said immediate action should have involved pressing forward and facing the boss, at least not from a risk/reward perspective. No, the best immediate action was to back away and progress through the zone using an alternate route which didn't involve the risk of fighting such abominations.

If GGG wants players to actually face those dangers once they see them, as opposed to running away like cowards, they're going to have to couple Invasion bosses with significant loot. Don't get me wrong, I'm with Clocksimus as far as nerfing the bosses themselves: keep them brutally difficult. That part is fine. But make them worth the effort to actually defeat.

The Etup video demonstrates this concept rather well. I barely even saw her, but Etup knows very well exactly what it is he's fighting; you can't say he didn't understand the risks. Of course, he dies anyway, because instead of running away, he actually tries to fight. That is the problem: not "omfg I had no chance to react," but that the risk/reward decision too heavily favors avoidance.

Until then, whenever you see that boss, you know she's not going to drop anything worthwhile, so just run.

If you're playing for normally, you will not notice her by the time she uses any one of her skills that can potentially one shot you. If you are running a non-UW stance build, you are fucked the second she hits you with anything, since you will be stunned, and she will follow up immediately with another attack that will kill you.

Her range is huge, and the fact that she isn't clearly distinguished better from other tentacle miscreations is bullshit. Oseccati for instance is ok the way he is because everyone knows fucking Giant Skeletons hit hard. It's not ok to hide/disguise a mob boss that has giant range and can potentially one shot you or two shot you. In normal play speed, you probably won't even notice her, and even if you did, that's enough time for her to drop the rain on you and GG you into softcore.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Apparently I'm the only person who actually looks at the monsters as I'm killing them.

But until other people do, I feel absolutely no sympathy. The "I didn't notice she was there" excuse will garner precisely zero sympathy from me.

To clarify, I'm not going to start feeling sympathy, either. Ever.

The very first time I was watching the Colby video, within half a second of her appearing on screen, I immediately recognized her as a variant-model miscreation and thus a potentially very dangerous threat. I don't even play Invasion and have never seen this boss before. Etup seems to have picked up on her sprite in under half a second, because I missed it. Yet Colby essentially pretends she isn't there for about a full three seconds, then in the last second he's powerless to stop what he should have prevented earlier. His fault.

Not saying he's a bad player or anything. So the guy made one misplay, which we recorded on video. So what? I make misplays too. But when I do, I call them what they are: misplays.

I think she is hard. I want to fight her myself now. When it comes to things being over tuned I really can't comment objectively. I like difficult things within reason. Etup managed to avoid a few rains without dying between movement and totem taking the rain, proving that the boss can be managed. She can be killed and so I don't mind her not being nerfed from her current state.

Most players will not share my love for difficult things and be absolutely enraged by this boss as seen by the community already. I'm simply opposed to the idea that GGG broke the game because they introduced monsters that prove that we aren't as good at this game as we would like to believe. This monsters have counters and means to be killed. Players will discover them and get better at the game as a result.

GGG might have taken too big a step in difficult. The players were clearly not ready for The Rain Maker. Slowly they will adjust but I do believe that regardless of what GGG truly believes, they will nerf some of these bosses because they respect their community even though a lot of them don't believe that and do nothing but bash GGG and call them morons.

The game is just too hard for most people and GGG will respond to that. I'd personally sit back and watch the RIP counter climb. I'd actually, knowing what a beast this league would be, have put up a RIP counter on the SotV Invasion launch. I guess this is why I don't work for GGG.

@allbusiness
I watched Etup video twice now and both times he got hit by an aoe at 0:36 and later when he died he was hit for about 1k damage over the course of several hits. Pause/play and you will see it isn't a single hit. Watching video again there are clearly two different aoe's one just drops and the other rains for a duration. I still do think movement is key to killing her. She is probably a no go for melee characters that don't want to use ST as a go to ranged attack. I'm not saying she is easy or that I can kill her but Etup was doing well until he ran into a room with mobs and decided to ignore the boss for a moment.

I just ran around the library in standard until i found her dungeon.

My character has pretty poor equipment, so he was on 3.5k armor, 10k eva, 38% chance to block, 75/65/75/1 resists and 4k HP.
With a Granite Flask of Iron Skin, Armor went up to ~12k.

She seemed to have 4 different attacks:
- Single target spike throw
- LMP spike throw
These two are not announced but do fairly moderate damage. I never seemed to block any of these attacks though.

- "Rain of Arrows" spike attack
Announced by her shooting spikes in the air. The animation is very fast and can be overlooked. After a very short delay, the AOE circle hits where you stood when she used the attack, so it can be dodged.
The damage of the attack varied wildly, from taking ~20% of my health to oneshotting me from 4k HP just as I entered the screen. It applies all damage in one single stack, and my guess is that you can get hit by multiple projectiles at once.
Again, i did not notice any attack being blocked, but if you consider the amount of projectiles fired, it's possible some may have been blocked (or not).
She also seemed to like using this attack twice in a row.

- "Firestorm" spike attack
Comparing it to firestorm because it is an ongoing attack that can apply multiple hits over time. It's announced by a short summoning animation she does, then spikes start to fall down onto your last position. You can dodge it by moving
This attack hits very hard, each spike took about 1/3 of my health, I only barely survived a couple of casts I was tanking by potting like crazy.


Granite Flask did not seem to help with any of the damage she was dealing.

The attacks were also still incredibly hard hitting, I saw no big difference to the lifedrops of Colby and Etup - so I don't think it's chaos damage, as the two were probably running around with -60% chaos and should have taken much more damage.

My guess is it's either insane fire damage (maybe on top of some neglegible physical) or completely bypassing.

On another note, she seems to have three different states depending on her life total.
At above 50% HP, she hit hard, but with Temp Chains on her her moves were pretty foreseeable and taking her down was not all that bad (I only died a few times).
After she dropped below 50% health, she acted considerably faster and dodging her AOE attacks became very difficult.
When she dropped very low, she went into full retard berserking mode. Even with Temp Chains she seemed to be super fast and predicting/dodging her attacks became almost impossible.
Taking the last 10% off her was worse and had a higher death toll than the 90% before that.

So even if you can survive her attacks initially, killing her is basically not an option unless you have multiple spare characters to dump at her feet.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Apparently I'm the only person who actually looks at the monsters as I'm killing them.

But until other people do, I feel absolutely no sympathy. The "I didn't notice she was there" excuse will garner precisely zero sympathy from me.

To clarify, I'm not going to start feeling sympathy, either. Ever.

The very first time I was watching the Colby video, within half a second of her appearing on screen, I immediately recognized her as a variant-model miscreation and thus a potentially very dangerous threat. I don't even play Invasion and have never seen this boss before. Etup seems to have picked up on her sprite in under half a second, because I missed it. Yet Colby essentially pretends she isn't there for about a full three seconds, then in the last second he's powerless to stop what he should have prevented earlier. His fault.

Not saying he's a bad player or anything. So the guy made one misplay, which we recorded on video. So what? I make misplays too. But when I do, I call them what they are: misplays.

You knew there would be a boss though because of the title of the video.


You cannot assume that there's always that particular variant of the Invasion boss on the way to Piety because you also have to adjust and avoid other Invasion bosses that are just as deadly. You have to look out for Judgement, Totem Bosses, Impaler (his enrage mode is no fun), Rima, etc. on top of looking out for her. And no, he didn't notice her, otherwise he would have ran like a bitch from her.

Stop theorycrafting because you're speaking from a position of theory and not of reality. There are multiple mobs you have to watch out for, not to mention at 60+ you have to watch out for Nemesis mods, along with the normal shit like curses, etc. To believe that a player should within 2-3 seconds be able to decipher if there's a certain boss type that blends in pretty well with everything else on the screen is asinine, especially when the boss can unload a one shot on you within those 2-3 seconds that you hesitated.

And typically, Ch'aska actually spawns right in the center of all the other miscreations, so it's actually really fucking hard to tell where she's at, especially on darker maps.