Pros and cons of a casual POE

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Mahesys a écrit :

The players he calls crybabies are destroying all the hard and entertaining games that some old "masochist hardcore l33t e-penis" players want to play. This is not restricted to PoE or ARPGs only. FpS for example falls in this category too.

Everyone of us was a bad player at beginning. Some of us didn't learn from mistakes and kept playing the game while constantly whining about diffcult spikes and mechanics (90%); other players learnt to adapt and "succeded" the game, by playing 2 or 15 hours a day (10%)

It's not a secret that nowdays the average players wants an instantly satisfying gaming experience (see: make a casual 1000X drop league); this feeling is widely confirmed by games like WoW and Diablo3: take a look at their vanilla version and actual one, you can see an ABYSS of difference. This is sadly as Swagtrain said the road that all games with a minimum of community will take in order to survive.

What's hard about PoE? Finding a non desync skill? Randomly gaining a piece of GG? Avoiding the noob traps on the passive tree? Stacking life and resists? I suppose there's a small bit of skill in knowing when to /oos, or when to pop the appropriate flask. For the most part, the game isn't hard, though. No traditional ARPGs are (which is probably why people love the Dark Souls take on the ARPG). The main thing a traditional ARPG can strive for is making the basic repetition fun. Which PoE does a pretty good job of, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

To me, forcing players to stack the same stats isn't really conducive to making that basic repetition fun, though, so there's a valid complaint against spike damage. Seems like it's a fundamental problem with flat % damage mitigation mechanics, rather than a sliding scale with diminishing returns. A sliding scale could offer a smaller variance in the damage one player sees vs another, allow more affixes to have a place in gear selection, and increase viable options in build design. Would love to see the defense systems revisted and refined, but I doubt that'll happen, since it would take a complete rebalance of the game.

Every game I have played that touted as a "hardcore" game, catered to casuals and are all now in ruin. The games gave a completed feeling much faster allowing players to move on far faster.

It is funny most arguments say elitists ruin games, when companies cave far more often for people that want things to come easier if not flat out easy.

Even games that have content gated for hardcore players, not just RNG, but skill and gear checks, casual players bitch and fucking moan until they are able to play that content. There can never be something out of reach for a casual gamer for them to be happy with the game as a whole. (ahem 6L's and ultra uniques)

I have given up faith that companies can hold to their promise of a hardcore game, in any genre. I have to go back and play classics to have a fucking challenge, and that is just sad.


Also, PoE is already casual.

Only one thing is necessary for me at least: Increase all drop rates by a factor of around ~10. Problem solved. No need for playing trade sim. Suddenly you can expect

(some epic loot)/(1000 hour gameplay).

I'm a casual player and have no problem with it. I don't need the best gear possible and I realize that playing 2 - 3 hours a week really limits my chances.

But a more casual league would be cool as it would give more opportunity to find and try out cool stuff.

Im casual by your definition - Still hardcore all the way, when I rip, I rip (throw my pc out the window, and by a new rig to reroll.) But Im very limited in time I have to spend ingame!(also the reason i love trading, this allows me to take full advantage of any drops, i can sell what is good for other people, and use whatever i get to become stronger alot faster! Still only thing i can say to this is:

No more player segregation - 4 leagues is more than enough!!

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Charan a écrit :

Don't read into it. I have a two year+ account, I've never made it to level 90. Apparently that makes me a crybaby.

Whatever. I've said my piece.

Meh, if your lack of reading comprehension causes you to go into such a self pity fest, or some type of babble to make me feel guilty then so be it. Kind of weird how you missed the point, dug too deep and made too much out of something you misunderstood.

I am intrigued by posts like charan's,that the game is beyond saving for balancing.And the fact thatthere cannot be a middle ground for both casuals and hardcore.

I remember hardcre players telling that ambush was the epitome of casual with their increased drops in theform of boxes.

Then they had the charity race and suddenly it became the best league ever.

So i think that hardcores,like casuals,dont know ehat they really want.ntil they both presented with solutions,Also how a poe2 would solve anything when they wont eve/ know how to fix the game thatis running around for years,it makes no sense

There can bemiddle ground for thiscpoe and hpoe is not the poe devs want

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b15h09 a écrit :

What's hard about PoE? Finding a non desync skill? Randomly gaining a piece of GG? Avoiding the noob traps on the passive tree? Stacking life and resists? I suppose there's a small bit of skill in knowing when to /oos, or when to pop the appropriate flask. For the most part, the game isn't hard, though. No traditional ARPGs are (which is probably why people love the Dark Souls take on the ARPG). The main thing a traditional ARPG can strive for is making the basic repetition fun. Which PoE does a pretty good job of, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

To me, forcing players to stack the same stats isn't really conducive to making that basic repetition fun, though, so there's a valid complaint against spike damage. Seems like it's a fundamental problem with flat % damage mitigation mechanics, rather than a sliding scale with diminishing returns. A sliding scale could offer a smaller variance in the damage one player sees vs another, allow more affixes to have a place in gear selection, and increase viable options in build design. Would love to see the defense systems revisted and refined, but I doubt that'll happen, since it would take a complete rebalance of the game.

You forgot the leet skillz involved in passing gearchecks, which really amounts to tradecore; unless you luck out at the right places.

In reality, the game is a bunch of gearchecks and click spamming, as are all ARPGs, all you need here is luck and lack of carpal tunnel syndrome. As mentioned, the actual skill is more in sensibly navigating the skilltree, and succeeding in the trading metagame.

I love all the leet players acting like whatever can be achieved with a bunch of pixels can be directly translated to real life success or lack thereof. It's freakin hilarious. Shit like that never gets old.

On a more serious note; I don't really think there's a need for any casual mode/league. But then again, my main criticism of this game is that it is calling playing slots "crafting". But I'm guessing such crybaby semantics are lost on people who thinks the main outcome of gambling IRL are winners...

For instance, in the feedback forum there's a guy who made a thread about UI changes that would give a first time player a better and more streamlined experience. Positively received by GGG too. But now, one year later I dont think one of these suggestions have been implemented, and the thread is probably dead.
I'd much rather see improvements to the actual game. Trading? Implement a goddamn ingame solution if trade is what the game is built around. Streamline that shit. Get some improvements on the performance of graphical effects and certain areas. And show some interest in the implemented parts of the game, like making the 3D art for uniques that have been around for I dunno how long. And give users an option to disable unoptimized graphical effects if these drop FPS below the 'awful-loss-of-immersion' threshold. It's a pc game , if I need to drop settings to 'stickfigures-in-a-cardboard-box' level to play smoothly, then let me do so.

Fixin stuff like the above would mean more to me than upping droprates or implementing special needs leagues. And yeah, I'm a filthy casual too.

TLDR:
Mass migration, followed by mass exodus
Less build exploring, more copying
Temptation of P2W items, since it may generate more profit
Less content, no longevity
I suggest to make cPOE a paid server monthly

--Read More--

if cPOE exists with lower difficulty and higher rewards, it would destroy the risk/reward mentality of POE.

I killed Dominus:
>cPOE gave you 7 chaos drops
> POE gave you 2 chaos drops


That would kill everything IMO. Massive migration at the first phase, boredom of the hardcore since it is easier at the second, then finally quitting of the hardcore since "I have done everything" (look up Kripparian burn out).

Making content easier, will make the content faster to consume (since everything is on fastfood). GGG will try to speed up production, and will most probably bleed money in the process.



Expect hardcore builders to play in cPOE to use it as a "sandbox", churn 5x more builds in less time than a normal player. This will deter a casual player to explore, since everything is already there.

Most people will pay money if they can get ahead: Exp boost, Drop boost, etc. This will be very tempting for GGG, and if they give in, that would be the end of it.


My Suggestion

How about this: We open cPOE, but with a monthly fee. This will sustain both games, and content can be consumed faster, since it can be made with the "monthy fees". Pay-to-win items need not be introduced since the game is already paid for.

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Worldbreaker a écrit :

Every game I have played that touted as a "hardcore" game, catered to casuals and are all now in ruin. The games gave a completed feeling much faster allowing players to move on far faster.

It is funny most arguments say elitists ruin games, when companies cave far more often for people that want things to come easier if not flat out easy.

Even games that have content gated for hardcore players, not just RNG, but skill and gear checks, casual players bitch and fucking moan until they are able to play that content. There can never be something out of reach for a casual gamer for them to be happy with the game as a whole. (ahem 6L's and ultra uniques)

I have given up faith that companies can hold to their promise of a hardcore game, in any genre. I have to go back and play classics to have a fucking challenge, and that is just sad.


Also, PoE is already casual.

I'm not sure about hardcore games. When I think of hardcore games I think of flight simulators for which you have to learn 78 key combinations off by heart for it to make it work smoothly. Or turn-based strategy games for which you have to sit for 10 minutes between each turn calculating consequences and numbers and things.

I've never played any of those kinds of games, mainly because they were truly, truly HARDCORE, meaning you'd have to learn a ton to even get by, and several tons more to master them. And, besides that, I was always afraid that I'm never really up to them.

Compared to that, things come natural in PoE, don't they? They great majority of everything is self-explanatory or comes by experience - the latter of which can come by quite quickly.

All that seems left to do in PoE is grind, grind, grind. Not that this all what PoE is all about. Not at all. But if you are so inclined and want to WIN, you don't have to do much else.

From my perspective I'd never equate PoE to a true hardcore game.