Pros and cons of a casual POE

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GeorgAnatoly a écrit :

Interesting thread op.

I'll give my personal take on cPoE: My feelings is that PoE as it currently stands is too easy so I've imposed several extra rules to keep the game challenging and to keep rerolling interesting. First I don't allow myself to trade. I also don't let characters farm for one another, I don't keep more than 1-3 anyway. I don't let myself use vendor recipes beyond selling stuff so no physical damage recipes or chaos etc etc. If a character dies, let's say, 20 times or is obviously not viable I delete it including items. I'll delete and reroll once I've finished merc, I don't map as it feels like a waste of time. Often times I'll feel like a character is complete after clearing cruel. And finally once my account has reached a certain level of wealth where rerolling is easy, about 3 weeks or so, I'll wipe the entire account clean - meaning delete all characters and items.

All this makes the game constantly challenging and fresh. My point is I have the option and the time to make a hPoE if you will (Harder-core PoE) and I can then understand people who don't have that kind of time or skill with the game would want a cPoE. I can't speak to what it would look like because my preferences go in the other direction but I do wish GGG would make the game generally more new player friendly.

Okay, THIS is interesting. I do pretty much the exact same thing: place restrictions on all my characters. While my decision is based on theme/concept rather than as a conscious reaction to the game being too easy, the few times I have played without these restrictions (usually races, but sometimes when testing) I HAVE found the game too easy. Spectral throw *bores me to tears*, as a simple example. Ground slam is soporific. CheesyBallsofCheese? Zzzz...

Thus it could be argued that any difficulty I find in the game is completely my fault. If it's too hard, Charan, just do what everyone else is doing. You're Creative, they're nVidia. Play the game the way it's meant to be played.

...Perhaps, but that in turn would put the blame right back on GGG for making a game where so many builds are possible, but only a relatively small fraction are viable. No new argument there.

So that'll be my final post here: if I find PoE hard/challenging, it's almost certainly because the game encourages me to make it so. I feel if it has all these options, this wonderful Skilldrasil, all these skills and skill combinations, all this gear, then the 'real' game, acts 1-3, normal to merciless, should be designed to make as many of those options as possible pleasurable/engaging to play. As I said, maps should be where the min/maxers get off, and for the most part this is true.



For GGG to *not* design/balance acts 1-3, normal to merciless with the above in mind is to severely cripple the true longevity of the game.

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jdilly23 a écrit :

People still think PoE is hardcore? Unreal lol

What is hardcore, though? Time investment required, or made, is really the main part of what makes an activity hardcore.

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Mivo a écrit :

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jdilly23 a écrit :

People still think PoE is hardcore? Unreal lol

What is hardcore, though? Time investment required, or made, is really the main part of what makes an activity hardcore.

he's b8in m8

I haven't had breakfast yet, so that bait looked edible!

The Con

The game will be consumed too quickly. It is counter productive to GGG's business model which revolve around a slow consumption of the game. Players who invest time to beat PoE's challenges are more likely to spend money on micro transactions to reward themselves. That's what I think.

To answer OPs original question: I would not like the idea of implementing a cPOE alongside POE for the simple reson that no matter how you look at it, it would take time and effort away from the devs that they could be using to create more content (or if you are so inclined to feel so, adjusting the current content).

The idea, I don't think, is too far fetched. I think that it would appease many of the players that really really want the game ot have "better" drop rates or less time investment needed.

In response to some of the other things:
1. I think that the definition of a casual and a hardcore gamer varies from person to person and that is what is pissing a lot of people off. For PoE in a vaccum, I would define a casual gammer as one that typically is not too concerned with races or ladder standings, plays the game less than a total of say, 3 hours a day (or 27 hours a week or however you want to define it), and, most importantly PLAYS THE GAME FOR FUN.

I think that is the real difference: Hardcore players play the game to win, to beat it, to get to a point where they can faceroll EVERYTHING. Casual players play it because it is fun to them.

This is not to say that hardcore gamers do not have fun playing the game, I honestly hope that every person that plays has fun doing it (otherwise why waste your time?), but I think that the end state goal is what really differentiates the casuals and the hardcorers.

Do you want to beat the game or do you just want to play to have fun?

I don't mean to step on toes or say that hardcore players don't care if the game is fun or that casuals can't care about end game content, I am just trying to give my definition.

There are other factors that come into play though, such as WHY you have the end state goals that you do. For example, I would LOVE to be able to play the game at a level that would allow me to fight uber Atziri and have a decent shot of beating her, but do to other factors (full time job, full time student, 3 kids, wife, etc) I do not have the time to devote the effort needed to reach that level of play. I have decided that for me, I will get more enjoyment out of just playing with new builds and seeing what I can create than I would beating my head against a wall because the only thing I really want to do is stomp every mob into the ground.

The one thing I would really like to be able to do, somehow, would be to experience all of the content. Do I think that they should do it? No, but it would be cool.

There could be a pseudo-race (no points rewarded) once or twice a month that give you a level 90 character with a full passive skill point set (and the option to pick bandit quests). There woudl be NPCs that woudl be like vendors, one would give you your choice of unique chests, one would do helms, boots, etc. You would also have access to every 20/20 gem and all items woudl have white sockets. The 'race' would be set up to give each player 10 minutes to build ANYTHING they want, and then an hour of wave after wave after wave of all types of enemies. It would start with enemies that are fairly underleveled so you can get used to using a new set up effectively, but it would VERY quickly increase to insane difficulty levels. No loot drops, no race points, no random rewards.

Why do I think this would be fun? I thin kthat it would be cool to just be able to expereince the game on that level as a player that knows I never will other wise. I do not want GGG to waterdown their game to appease me, but I woudl still like to be able to really experience everything they have created to the fullest.

Plus, I think it would give me something to work towards in my 'real' game. Maybe after playing and end game low life shavs crit dagger crown of eyes oompa loompa nija turtle build I would say "That's not really my style" instead I could see how a 6L Pillar of the Caged God works along with Koams Heart and Theif's Torment for alife based evasion character based on someone from my favorite book...(I have no idea...I'm just throwing out random things I will never have). Then I might decide that I LOVE the way it all workd and put my efforts into getting those items to make that build instead of playing and building that build only to find out that it will never work and not be fun. So pretty much, this would be like a little test league that does not happen very often and does not last long at all, but I think it would give players incentive to keep playing so they can re-create that really awesome build.

Sorry for going so far off topic.

There have been some very interesting posts lately.

The trend I understand is:
Hardcore gamers and casuals have different goals and need different aspects. It is accepted that casuals cannot "earn" the right to view end-game content unless the difficulty (however you define it) is nerfed so far that the game becomes unattractive to hard code gamers.
Some people have suggested a kind of tutorial or test mode where you can experiment with stuff you'll never otherwise never get to see. Examples: Be given "insane" amounts of gambling ingredients or be given a high level char to test-drive. Of course anything gained in such a mode may not be kept to use in the rest of the game. This would allow casuals to see everything the game has to offer.

That sounds like a great idea: Allow POE to be experienced completely by casuals, yet not remove the challenge to actually earn it.

Many have also commented on the unbalance of the game. Damage spikes, piss-easy content following insanely hard fights, exaggerated gear dependence, etc... I also think there is a lot of room for improvement there, as well as for many many quality of life changes which would make for a smoother game experience.

In summary, I feel confident that POE needs not be split into two modes to have real mass market appeal AND draw the hard core crowd if enough of these suggestions are implemented.

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Xavderion a écrit :

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Mivo a écrit :

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jdilly23 a écrit :

People still think PoE is hardcore? Unreal lol

What is hardcore, though? Time investment required, or made, is really the main part of what makes an activity hardcore.

he's b8in m8

You almost get me every time with your game is dying posts >.>

I think hardcore mostly has to do with how unforgiving a game is, and to an extent, how skill based the difficulty is.

When I first started playing PoE, pretty much everything you tried sucked, and everything killed you. That was actually pretty awesome, and I dont think thats the case anymore. PoE had to appeal to more casual players if they wanted to be financially successful.

For the most part the game is easier as a whole now, you can place a bunch of bad passives, barely understand resists, and clear merciless no problem. Unfortunately you can also run the highest level of content more easily because the best weapon is quite a bit better than a lioneyes.

That might not be entirely the games fault though. Ive invested a pretty good chunk of time into it, and things seem dull after a thousand hours of anything.

Increase (~double) map drop rates, increase (~double) chance to get 5L/6L --> game is fixed

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TheStalker a écrit :

Increase (~double) map drop rates, increase (~double) chance to get 5L/6L --> game is fixed

A simple solution. But - like most simple solutions - not correct :)
There are some very insightful posts regarding difficulty and balance and such further up. You could profit from reading them.