Its time for fortify+movement skill to die

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First there are some obvious issues with builds that use Shieldcharge or Cyclone to actually damage enemies and not allowing them to Fortify is stupid.

>And to be fair I don't actually think that Movementskill + Fortify is too much of an issue.

Have you read anything in the thread at all?


Cyclone is a damaging movement ability, its purpose isn't to move you from one destination to another, like shield charge, WB, ect. Its purpose is to do damage or in the past trigger COC or whatever. Cyclone and flicker strike have movement tags, but they are excluded from things like haku missions, my suggestion is the same thing.


Secondly, while there used to be primary damage builds based on shield charge, the fact that its used to cheese mobility\defensive mechanics in the game means its purpose would far better be served just as a movement skill, ideally with charges\cooldown or be slower in function, similar to WB post nerfed. There isn't anything interesting about shield charge as a damaging ability, so if it has to die to make the game better, I'm all for it. Alternatively, making a threshold jewel could enable it to be a primary skill.

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Second a caster with a sceptre hardly has any issues switching Shieldcharge with Sunder to Fortify, while an actual melee champ is hurt much more by not being able to Fortify with Shieldcharge because he is forced into Fortify, this is actually still true if Fortify is on Melee skills by default, because again nothing keeps the caster from using such a melee skill.

Sunder at least requires attack speed investment, shield charge while it does scale with it doesnt. Furthermore, sunder would lock them in place and not provide them with the defensive of actually moving, you know like shield charge does.



If fortify is a more multiplier, at up to 20% its still a worthy thing to use in main skill. Yes it sucks for actual melee to get nerfed in the process, but its the only way.

GGG "might" revisit the idea and give all non movement, non special melee skills inherit fortify, but I dont think they have any plans to do that.

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So blocking Fortify from Casters is basically impossible. Because you cannot block them out of Melee skills. However you can make that less desirable and actually offer different defenses to them they might choose instead and also give melee more ways to improve their fortify over that casters use. And while putting Fortify on all Meleeskills might not help, having it on Heavy Strike should work because it is kinda hard to see a caster using that just to get Fortify.

Its not about blocking it. If someone wants to get the buff they will have to blantly going out of their way to get it then.


lets say hypothetically they add a mechanic similar to the old AA back in the game for casters, defense based on mana regen (aside from mom), just because they have the option to use this new mechanic doesnt mean they wouldn't still use fortify on shield charge, because its a complete no brainier to do so.


So while it might be a good idea to explore things like this for casters, its more important to fix the situation with how shield charge not only provides people with mobility but increased defenses, with little to no investment at all.

Shameless bump, because voicing my opinion of this on reddit = downvotes from casuals.

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goetzjam a écrit :

Shameless bump, because voicing my opinion of this on reddit = downvotes from casuals.

Make the game hard again please.

And CWDT movement spells. None of this shit that rewards no input.

So I was watching the video q/a again and came across this gem:

https://youtu.be/zZqRMDz2WRA?t=72

Claim you dont want to massively nerf mobility skills and that you want to make changes, but that video is from a year ago and essentially nothing has been done in terms of balance for it.

Which goes back to my OP, at least its something that is somewhat of a no brainier in terms of balance. Removing the defensive bonus from it, while still enabling people to be race cars is still within your scope of "nerf"

But I do think they should be nerfed as well, until then no one is going to do anything other them spam mobility skills.

I'm coming around to this idea, but it is a bit complicated.

Shield Charge does have a somewhat unique aspect where it gains a higher chance to stun at max range. Maybe a jewel has potential to fix that.

Leap Slam has in the past been used for (janky) damage and it still has just barely enough potential that uberpowered builds can make it work. It's also got the inbuilt knockback chance, for whatever that's worth anymore.

Taking the buff away on using a spell seems counter to trying to use spells for utility. PCoC Orb of Storms comes to mind.

I still need to think more on this, but not tonight.

If they remove fortify from movement skills wouldn't that me pure phys builds would lose a damage gem in their main 6 link? (assuming you would have to put it on your main six link since it would be disabled for movement skills?).

If they remove it from working with movement skills make it a more multiplier so melee doesn't suffer too much.

Honestly, my bigger gripe with current implementation is that it requires you to use attacks. Not all melee characters are attack characters. There are spells that are melee in nature.

Honestly, Fortify should work the way some of the Pantheon stuff works. If there are enemies nearby (close range), it gives you the bonus. Maybe even scaled with how many enemies there are, or what type. If there are no enemies, no Fortify is applied to you. This way you can't just slam one worm with shield charge and enjoy a ranged Fortify for ~4 seconds.

But if we want to stay in current (broken, imo) implementation, I can't quite understand why counterattacks can't apply Fortify...
I mean, it is already WAY too easy for casters to get it - why make it hard for characters that are intended to use it?

ive been meaning to make a thread on moveskills forever, and ill still do it because it sort of goes outside just the fortify problem, but its def part of it.


I was wrong about fortify at first, I thought it was alright the way they did it but I have to admit when u look how its played out over time its just shite.


the guy who made a thread a while back and said leap slam, shield charge and whirling should have an extra new tag of 'mobility' and that mobility tagged skills shouldnt proc fortify, bang on. But to go along with this fortify itself needs changed, thats essential to it. It should only activate on melee hit if the enemy is within a small radius and the gem HAS to give about 30% more melee damage, if not more than that, maybe even 36%.

Its there to give melee a buff that was needed, there should be no tradeoff to them getting that buff, if it needed a tradeoff then the gem wouldnt have needed to exist. They can already trade damage for defence on the passive tree, thats not the point, its giving them extra defence thats specific to melee.


Majority of the time when I need it fortify its down on my melee chars because I dont want to stop leeching in order to use a moveskill in a dangerous situation. Because of this I have fortify active on my casters as much as my melee, and my casters have to use daggers and sceptres rather than wands because I cant fortify with a wand. The situation is retarded and needs addressed, and its things like this the game needs revisited and put right rather than yet another rushed out expansion full of problems that messes things up even more.

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astraph a écrit :

The best thing to do with the fortify BUFF to help those that should be helping, meaning tanky melee characters, would be to make it scale of you Armour and Evasion. More detailed:

1) Remove it from movement skills altogether

2) Remove the gem

3) Make it inherent in melee skills and make it work like this:

a) While you start attacking it would give you an instant buff calculated like that:

- Amount of total Armour + evasion /1000 * 0.75 and that's your instant damage reduction with a hard cap of 30%. Meaning if your combined Evasion and Armour is 30K you will get an instant of 22.5% damage reduction. Essentially with combined armour and evasion of 40K you reach the cap.

- Then while you are attacking STATIONARY, you get an additional /1000 * 0.10 of your total armour + evasion for every second up to 5 second max, making essentially up to an additional /1000 * 0.5 of your total amount of armour and evasion, making it worth while to invest even further than 40K AR/EVA, and worth while to stack Ar/Eva flasks instead of just DPS ones.

So again if you have 30K of Armour and Evasion total you will get 22.5% instant reduction while you are attacking with the potential of getting an additional 3% every second you are attacking stationary with a cap at 5 seconds meaning 15%. The total if you are attacking stationary with 30K defenses would be 37.5% reduction.

This way it will really help melee characters that invest in defenses, particularly Armour and Evasion which are shit, and not casters, ranged characters or DPS oriented melee users with stat sticks.

This is seriously the best change i can think of.

Not all melee-like characters scale armor/evasion.