Its time for fortify+movement skill to die

"

goetzjam a écrit :

"

Well, you implied that only 2 handers and bows don't use Fortify when needed aka going in, instead of out of danger. You're welcomed to provide me with an efficient way of getting closer to the ranged enemies and grant an effect as Fortify without the use of a movement skill...

Ideally your moving pack to pack fast enough with enough duration so even if your melee you never lost your buff from the last pack.

"

Shield charge, leap slam or whirling blades should grant the Fortify buff as long as you keep using another melee skill to hit the enemy post their use, because that would imply that you went IN, instead of getting OUT.

There isn't an easy way to give users this sort of information. In addition, mobility is defense, again why would you need to "double dip" on getting additional defense while your using it to avoid shit.

"

Oh, I know the "hidden" modes on unique/various items that don't get reduced, but all of them don't stop us for a second to become various Road Runners or Sonic the hedgehog...

Movement speed requires more of an investment then shield charge+fortify+faster attacks, so while its possibly to use mobility from speed, it at least isn't giving you fortify as well.

"

An armoured character should ALWAYS move slower than a leather/robe protected one, even just to add some "weight" and "meaning" to that choice...

Thematically sure, but at the end of the day that isn't something that should happen across the board because armor is only useful up until a certain point. How do you balance a high evasion chest vs a high armor chest. Arguably the high evasion chest is going to be overall more mitigation but the armor chest is more reliable against a barrage of stuff.

"

AA needs a rework to get on par, or even better than Fortify, especially that too weak chill effect, even solely due to it's reserved mana requirement.

I liked it better when it worked off of mana regen, perhaps it was too strong, but it was more unique then AA currently is.

"

Fortify needs to grant a lesser bonus for movement skills as to provide some "wiggle" room regarding errors, as we do "enjoy" an always online experience (if you could guarantee that GGG would polish every new encounter and won't provide us with overtuned monster damage spike, I would support your stance without a blink, unfortunately, that is a pipe dream), but if you're so drastic, it could also be replaced by a different "buff", as just plainly removing it when used with a movement skill will feel "lacklustre" to say the least...

Don't feel like repeating what I said above. Furthermore, much like I mentioned above, how do you communicate this. Just say "half effectiveness on movement skills", except cyclone\flicker?

"

This might be a huge problem for you, but this never, and I do mean NEVER EVER, trivialised all game content, in the same measure Spark + Voltaxic did, due to poison double dipping. Heck, they even fixed the problem regarding minions remaining alive and killing bosses after your death, before addressing Fortify + movement skills. And it was the right thing to do.

Vaal spark you mean, self casting spark volt was very strong, but at the same time later double dipping builds were way stronger then volt was. And with poison requiring more node commitments it would be far more balanced.

Ultimately when it comes to skills that have the potential to convert, historically they seem to be pretty damn broken with how well they can scale. Look at all of these stat sticks that can work for ek\glacial cascade, reave, ect. Look at some of these watcher's eyes (although I really like these)

Furthermore, volt was broken in perandus, you know when they decided to drop the rarity of it and also give people free uniques by just collecting gold that had no cost to the player.

In terms of the suicide golem build, xD thats pretty funny when you think about it. But setting it to do 0 damage when your dead likely wasn't that crazy of a change to make.


However, if you think that these are comparable to shield charge+fortify+faster attacks ruining the game I just don't even.


It gives defensive bonuses to characters that were never intended to get it. It limits weapon choices by making melee ones much better then wands, it widens the gap between actual melee builds and ones that just abuse the cheese mechanics.

Shield charge\wb is what enabled vaal spark, vaal FB and almost all of the top clearspeed builds to reign.

"

But we're talking about GGG, and they do tag "melee" to those cool AoE/ranged attacks like candy to a Christmas tree. A further fix to this problem might take a while...

But all they need to do is something so that people stop getting a benefit they were never intended to get.

"

goetzjam a écrit :

"

Funny, I thought that GGG already balanced high armour vs high evasion via just that, armour works more consistent, and you ALWAYS die if you get hit on an evasion based character, presuming you either have insufficient buffer or you get "unlucky" versus a "barrage of hits"... Regardless, armour should make you ALWAYS feel more "tanky", and evasion/dodge should make you feel more successful if your gameplay is skillplay based...

The issue with that is the map mods really. Roll a map with 2 added damage as XX or YY and the evasion character suddenly becomes tankier in terms of mitigation then the armor does, because armor is only negating the phys portion of the damage, while evading is mitigating the attack and therefore the ele portion as well.

"

There is nothing wrong in stating just that openly, and hidden the "increased Fortify effect if you continuously apply the buff", not to mention that due to their mechanics, neither Cyclone or Flicker Strike should get the buff - Cyclone already has stun immunity, and Flicker is still the best clearing option on a heavily invested "melee" build, until the bosses at least, and due to their advanced mobility, they shouldn't actually "double dip", right?

Wrong, cyclone is literally "the" melee skill, while it isn't a name lock skill it absolutely should get fortify because they've nerfed the aoe so much that there is no way your not on top of the mob to kill it. Reave can clear a whole screen with its buff, but cyclone can't even hit many things because its aoe is so tinny.

Yes cyclone gets stun immunity, because the skill would be unplayable otherwise. Furthermore, stun immunity a concern in this day and age? Hello pantheon? Stun avoidance enchant, ect. Apparently some people are reporting getting stunned out of it anyway, idk how that is possible, but that is a separate issue.

As a trade off cyclone has absolutely garbage single target, at least reave can use bladefury or something.

In terms of flicker, its uncontrollable movement, for the most part it might not be necessary, but idk why it wouldn't be able to get fortify, it at least isn't being used to trivialize encounters.

"

And all those Vaal skills, and even golem interaction is what allowed undesired completion of game content in a smaller than optimal time frame, with 0 danger presented to the players.

Yet we see people playing tons of builds now that "run" (aka shield charge) thru content at as fast if not faster pace then before, all because the unchecked nature of shield charge=fortify+faster attacks, the same combination that was used to cheese vaal skills, the same combination that has plagued this game for years.

The golem thing was funny, but on a side note, they also should be tagged in grace period, its a bit silly to zone in, have the golem aggro something and as soon as you move die to a queue up attack.

"

Using Fortify might make casters more "tanky", but they also ALWAYS get more closer to the danger and more prone to deaths. And that simply places the interaction of Fortify + MS on a lesser priority place for GGG, regardless of our opinions...

It is not just caters, its minion builds, support builds or anyone that would otherwise benefit by using a bright beak or melee weapon of any sort, but not actually do a melee attack.

People aren't getting closer to get the buff, they arent specifically going out of their way or putting themselves in danger to get it, they are getting it "by chance" or as icing on the top.

If they removed fortify from movement skills, people would still use them, probably still as much as they do now, the simply wouldn't gain the "cherry on top" which is what the whole sad part of this discussion is.

"

And GGG needs to get more involved regarding balance, regarding the trade system status, various technical problems/optimisations etc. etc. Why do they always prefer to put these on pause and focus solely on bringing new "@#&/" is above me - yes, I know that PoE has surprisingly bad player retention over time, and that they're content with interest spikes, but this might not always pay dividends, and later, their combined efforts to address all the lacklustre aspects will be in vain...

GGG only gets a few chances every once and a while for balance stuff outside of their team and alpha. In terms of trade system status, idk what you are expecting, GGG released their trade site and asked for feedback, they likely have no intention on adding anything else or an AH if that is what you want.

They have to release new content, new skills, new supports, it draws in old players, keeps the game more interesting, they have been trying to revist at least something every expansion in order to address somethings, but they always run out of time.


This expansion was to better address some rare item diversity to uniques as well as address some of the issues with the atlas being too flat. Now there is a reason to do other stuff, just maybe not as much as people wanted.

Next patch will address some AC classes. 3.0 addressed unique flask being too powerful and some other stuff.