Its time for fortify+movement skill to die

Please play said builds, then come back to edit out your misconceptions

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goetzjam a écrit :

Kill WB+fortifyhttps://www.pathofexile.com/forum/post-reply/2054166/quote/15123124

Kill shield charge+fortify

Kill leap slam+fortify as well

What you don't realize is that all of the listed skills above only work if you have melee weapon in main hand. So 100% of melee builds use this alredy. As consecuence you are basically nerfing melee by one link since they will be forced to use it on main link. Also not sure about cyclone/flicker strike and things like, those are used as main skill and not just movement.

Brainless people will welcome this change only to experience the results if this comes live. Like just think about it. What does a range char loose with this change? Nothing. And range is alredy wayyyy safer since you are alredy outside of most one-shots range.

No diversity? Is using faster attacks with EVERY movement skill diversity? Is just there because it fits and makes gameplay smoother.

The really sad thing with fortify is often times when you truly need that extra damage reduction, you have to leap into an enemy but by doing that you get hit at the same time. This is more of a leap slam issue, I play a lot of 2hander builds and leap slamming to get fortify can feel clunky at times. I have tried using it as a 5th or 6th link but it also feels awful being a really low boost of damage.

Going up against super buffed up essence monsters, or ghosted rare enemies, bosses like abaxoth who spread the screen with abilities. I need that buff as I am going into the fray not after. Cleave feels alright even though you kind of have to waste a jewel for it, but at least it feels better. I've actually been trying out vigilant strike with ancestral call to weave in. Even that sometimes gets in the way of end charges though that I don't want to expend.

I'm bored of spamming movement skills to move... I think those would be better suited for quick ways to re position, but not as a default movement... flame dash is actually the best movement skill imo, I'd rather people need to find movement speed to move and a movement skill to re position... but that is for another discussion.

And I'm tired of Melee builds being held back because we are afraid casters or bow characters will be to strong, they are already too strong.. who cares at this point. I'd rather at least feel like fortify has a bit more impact on my play style than it does currently.

I'd like to see more options in how we are granted Fortify and different buffs that fortify can grant to melee builds. That way bow/spell casters can get fortify but its only at its base version and melee can get fortify but a more upgradable version of it. Trigger gems granting fortify, enduring cry threshold jewel, maybe a fortify keystone in the melee area, new fortify uniques, etc.

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e1337donkey a écrit :

Going up against super buffed up essence monsters, or ghosted rare enemies, bosses like abaxoth who spread the screen with abilities. I need that buff as I am going into the fray not after. Cleave feels alright even though you kind of have to waste a jewel for it, but at least it feels better. I've actually been trying out vigilant strike with ancestral call to weave in. Even that sometimes gets in the way of end charges though that I don't want to expend.

I'd like to see more options in how we are granted Fortify and different buffs that fortify can grant to melee builds. That way bow/spell casters can get fortify but its only at its base version and melee can get fortify but a more upgradable version of it. Trigger gems granting fortify, enduring cry threshold jewel, maybe a fortify keystone in the melee area, new fortify uniques, etc.

Main problem with fortify and melee in general is that to get close range you need to walk in alot of stuff, including degen/DoT beams which fortify doesn't mitigate. So just another downside for melee.

Fortify on cleave jewel has to low duration imo, like sometimes you are dead before you actually get to a hit a pack of mobs if they are close to some crit aura rare.

Specific uniques tend to be quite trash in general. yeah they fix one mechanic but you loose all the sweet stuff that you can get on a rare item, making them unvaible.

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IIPheXII a écrit :

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e1337donkey a écrit :

Going up against super buffed up essence monsters, or ghosted rare enemies, bosses like abaxoth who spread the screen with abilities. I need that buff as I am going into the fray not after. Cleave feels alright even though you kind of have to waste a jewel for it, but at least it feels better. I've actually been trying out vigilant strike with ancestral call to weave in. Even that sometimes gets in the way of end charges though that I don't want to expend.

I'd like to see more options in how we are granted Fortify and different buffs that fortify can grant to melee builds. That way bow/spell casters can get fortify but its only at its base version and melee can get fortify but a more upgradable version of it. Trigger gems granting fortify, enduring cry threshold jewel, maybe a fortify keystone in the melee area, new fortify uniques, etc.

Fortify on cleave jewel has to low duration imo, like sometimes you are dead before you actually get to a hit a pack of mobs if they are close to some crit aura rare.

Specific uniques tend to be quite trash in general. yeah they fix one mechanic but you loose all the sweet stuff that you can get on a rare item, making them unvaible.

Then don't make them trash uniques. When you release items like Lightpoacher, it's safe to say you wouldn't also have a problem releasing solid uniques with buffs to fortify while also granting other beneficial stats. I mean, what is the worst that can happen... melee becomes strong. I mean, it's near impossible to make melee skills compete with bow/casters. That is why we need some fortify buffs so that at the very least when I go into to fight an enemy I feel tanky while other classes need to use there range to their advantage.

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goetzjam a écrit :

Kill WB+fortify

Kill shield charge+fortify

Kill leap slam+fortify as well

How typical: Trash a bread-and-butter DEFENSIVE melee skill FOR ALL MELEE BUILDS in order to prevent SOME caster builds from exploiting it.

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allbusiness a écrit :

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SqualZell a écrit :

I don't agree or disagree with OP's suggestion

Unless you can give a reason as to why those should be killed, GGG should focus on other more important issues.

Because it makes caster balance incredibly difficult. Every caster has access to fortify when they really shouldn't.

Really shouldn't because you decided it this way? lmao
Then don't get fortify.

whoa whoa whoa... if you do that then how are non-melee players supposed to cheese fortify?


Don't they need fortify to...um...well...

Wait what do non-melee people need fortify for anyway?

Have a debuff via skills or keystone or build in melee skills that enemies within 20 yards have their damage reduce or slowed by XX%.

Its not like other games like Diablo 3 not already have such design.

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e1337donkey a écrit :

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IIPheXII a écrit :

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e1337donkey a écrit :

Going up against super buffed up essence monsters, or ghosted rare enemies, bosses like abaxoth who spread the screen with abilities. I need that buff as I am going into the fray not after. Cleave feels alright even though you kind of have to waste a jewel for it, but at least it feels better. I've actually been trying out vigilant strike with ancestral call to weave in. Even that sometimes gets in the way of end charges though that I don't want to expend.

I'd like to see more options in how we are granted Fortify and different buffs that fortify can grant to melee builds. That way bow/spell casters can get fortify but its only at its base version and melee can get fortify but a more upgradable version of it. Trigger gems granting fortify, enduring cry threshold jewel, maybe a fortify keystone in the melee area, new fortify uniques, etc.

Fortify on cleave jewel has to low duration imo, like sometimes you are dead before you actually get to a hit a pack of mobs if they are close to some crit aura rare.

Specific uniques tend to be quite trash in general. yeah they fix one mechanic but you loose all the sweet stuff that you can get on a rare item, making them unvaible.

Then don't make them trash uniques. When you release items like Lightpoacher, it's safe to say you wouldn't also have a problem releasing solid uniques with buffs to fortify while also granting other beneficial stats. I mean, what is the worst that can happen... melee becomes strong. I mean, it's near impossible to make melee skills compete with bow/casters. That is why we need some fortify buffs so that at the very least when I go into to fight an enemy I feel tanky while other classes need to use there range to their advantage.

I entirely share your opinions.

Heck, I'll go and add as just like @goetzjam says that this state of Fortify stops him from "supporting", IF GGG would separate Fortify on a "lesser" version used with movement skills - not everyone wants/needs it on a main skill or an additional non-repositioning related one - and an "uber" version that grants 50-100% increased buff effect if you hit a monster in a <16 radius (it would be even better if they tune the ~40% increased damage into a 10-20% more MELEE damage), I'll throw further "supporter packs" their way.

It's a missed opportunity to disregard Fortify as a keystone worthy mechanic, as it's one of the few that do make choices to actually matter...