Its time for fortify+movement skill to die

Please GGG, its no better IMO to have this a possibility, then it is to have allowed them to work with counter attacks.


Kill WB+fortify

Kill shield charge+fortify

Kill leap slam+fortify as well


This needs to happen, at the same time change fortify to be a 10-20% more multiplier, so people feel its still good to use in the main link, but directly worst then many of the damage gems they could use.


Thanks,
goetzjam


edit: Video of Chris mentioning they want to nerf movement skills ~ 1 year ago, but they weren't quite sure how, well...

https://youtu.be/zZqRMDz2WRA?t=72

Hm. Care to explain why? It is not that I have very strong feelings about this either way, but I always thought it was good to encourage players to use more than one skill.

I don't agree or disagree with OP's suggestion

Unless you can give a reason as to why those should be killed, GGG should focus on other more important issues.

"

SqualZell a écrit :

I don't agree or disagree with OP's suggestion

Unless you can give a reason as to why those should be killed, GGG should focus on other more important issues.

Because it makes caster balance incredibly difficult. Every caster has access to fortify when they really shouldn't.

"

Char1983 a écrit :

Hm. Care to explain why? It is not that I have very strong feelings about this either way, but I always thought it was good to encourage players to use more than one skill.

Perhaps a better explaination can be found in a similar thread he started a couple of weeks ago?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2036220

I agree that Fortify is in a really stupid place right now. Originally it was designed to be a melee exclusive skill (which is the same reason why Fortify doesn't work on skills like Retribution, it was to provide casters from linking Fortify to Retribution to get the buff)

Unfortunately all we have right now is casters running offhands with the Fortify + shield charge/leap slam in order to get the buff. Melee's are kinda forced to do the same.

I actually think the OP's suggestion is a nice way to fix this, give it something like 10-20% more melee damage (not physical, so melee Ele can still use it). That way at least the offensive part is completely useless on caster characters and it also gives melee's a reason to link it to something that isn't shield charge or leap slam.

The least they could do would be to reduce Fortify's effect & duration by 50% if it's applied by a movement skill, and have Vigilant Strike grant double Fortify effect...

Fortify on an "utility" skill does work and "get's the job done" surprisingly well...

And it's bonus damage should be "melee damage" either in an up to 80% increase or up to 20% more...

"

SqualZell a écrit :

I don't agree or disagree with OP's suggestion

Unless you can give a reason as to why those should be killed, GGG should focus on other more important issues.

It is literally the most important issue in the game right now.

It is a crutch used by players giving them bonuses never meant for them, giving them the ability to clear much faster then designed.


Look at vaal spark\fireball before the changes, you know how the skill worked right, you pop it, run with WB or shield charge and just keep chaining back to back. Because of the ability to spam movement skills. As a side bonus for anyone doing this they gain the ability to get a defensive bonus that was fully intended for melee playstyles, not casters.


This then compounds the reasons to not use cater weapons. Why use a void battery, when you know your going to be giving up the ability to shield charge. It goes even further then that and maybe some people use spell damage\cater daggers or what not. But a lot have moved to using brightbeak, because you see the damage\clear\ect has gotten so out of control that you dont even need stats on your weapon as a caster, so you put this weapon on, gives you some res, which makes using more uniques easier and it increases the speed at which you shield charge.

The best caster weapon in the game right now is brightbeak.....


Why? Shield charge+faster attacks+fortify. Add in the essence crafted gloves for some extra cancer as well.


It just has so many cascading issues and people just reply back with "buff flame dash", ok sure buff it slightly thats fine. People should have the ability to use movement skills, but currently shield charge in its current form is way too powerful.

To me this single issue is the difference between spending a min amount of money if I enjoy the league, to buying a top tier supporter pack or exploring a unique item design.

About the only downside of my suggestion is no shield charge as primary skill builds would be that great. Death of a skill in terms of being primary skill viable in order to balance the idea around a defensive bonus not intended for casters\summoners\supports\ect is pretty good IMO.

People were already saying it should be removed on movement skills in 2.0. Some lunatics thought it would ''nerf'' melee lel.

It really wouldn't nerf melee if you give it a more % multiplier on 'melee only' skills (like 10% more damage when fortify is active, it shouldn't be on par with other melee support gems).

I'm using it in main link instead of leap slam so I can just AFK mouseclick instead of needing to press more keys and leap slam all the time to keep it up.

"

goetzjam a écrit :

Please GGG, its no better IMO to have this a possibility, then it is to have allowed them to work with counter attacks.

Definitely agreed.

"

goetzjam a écrit :

This needs to happen, at the same time change fortify to be a 10% more multiplier, so people feel its still good to use in the main link, but directly worst then many of the damage gems they could use.

I'm less convinced by this; putting it in a main link rather than a secondary you need to think about is definitely a trade-off sort of decision, so it seems reasonable that "automatic fortify with no extra buttons" is a reasonably steep cost compared to "fortify as a don't suck button". Even though I hate don't-suck buttons so very much.

Ultimately, though, I think that PoE should follow the lead of D3: just give the melee classes a 20 or 30 percent flat damage reduction, full stop, and call it a day. Balance them as casters by making it more costly to use them for those builds, rather than trying to beat a separate skill into shape to provide the survivability they need for being in the face of the boss, and so unable to dodge so much.

(Heck, just give free fortify on melee tagged skill use if you want, and remove it on use of a spell or ranged tagged skill.)