Are Stash Tabs Pay To Win ? Science

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mark1030 a écrit :

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bunnyxian90 a écrit :

Meanwhile, extra stash tabs hoarder just click on the inventory and put whatever they found, then use Procurement, set all 1/2/3/4/5 chaos and put in forum Shop.

So you refute my "more time spent the more stash tabs you have" argument by saying third party software makes using your stash tabs faster? All your character's inventories can be viewed using that third party software too. I don't have in depth knowledge of that software but I know it's always getting updated. So when an update comes (if it's not already included) that lets you do exactly what you said with setting all 1/2/3/4/5 chaos in forum shop (not even entirely sure what that means...buyouts?) from mules, would you be satisfied?

Procurement (the third party software he wrote of) is perfectly usable with mules, no worries.

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Real_Wolf a écrit :

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Wittgenstein a écrit :

Its not P2W because you can achieve the same thing by just making mule accounts and characters. If anything, its P2ST -Pay to Save Time. If anything.

I prefer the name "pay for convenience". Its just like xp/ip boosts in League of Legends. You don't have to, but it is a great convenience

xp boost? thats so fucking p2w omg what a horrible game is that

i laughed at that as well. wasn't sure he was joking or not.

"you know, it's just like those experience boosters you can buy in other games...not really p2w, just slight convenience."

wut?

Someone thinking that xp boost in LoL is p2w does definitely not know what it means ( or don't know LoL maybe ... )

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Fruz a écrit :

Someone thinking that xp boost in LoL is p2w does definitely not know what it means

The XP booster is pretty minor, since the game doesn't really "start" competitively until you hit the XP cap. It's a few days of difference between being able to play ranked or not.

The IP boosters (or just directly buying characters) in LoL are P2W.

Having access to a larger champion pool at the time of the match is a definite advantage. Having access to a brand new champion the day it's released can be a huge competitive advantage (i.e. people don't know about it or how to counter it, or it may be unbalanced on release and get nerfed later).

It's currently around $650 to unlock all champions via RP (half that if you buy them on sale rotation), or around 4000 wins via IP (no boosters). That's not including runes and rune pages which are a whole different bag of required unlocks before you can play competitively.

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Anyway, I don't want to take this off-topic. There aren't any direct (exp, item drop) boosters in PoE, so no worries there.

I still feel that Stash Tabs are a very minor form of a trading/vendor efficiency booster, but personally, it's low enough that it doesn't bother me. I know that it's not nothing, because I could trivially match more rare names together if I had unlimited stash space, in addition to whatever other uses I could get out of them.

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pneuma a écrit :

The IP boosters (or just directly buying characters) in LoL are P2W.[...]

IP boosts are ultimately nothing, because for a fresh starting player, by the time that you reach a good-enough level to reach plat or more, you have acquired enough IP to have enough champion that fits you, and enough generic runepages + specialized for your champs.

And by the time that one reaches diamond ( I'm not a heavy LoL player, especially atm, so no diamond for me anyway, ever lol ), that should basically be the same.

One does not need all the champions, quite far from that.

TLDR : xp boost are nothing, and IP boost are ultimately nothing either.

Anyway, what was mentioned here is the xp boost :).

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Veruski a écrit :

i laughed at that as well. wasn't sure he was joking or not.

"you know, it's just like those experience boosters you can buy in other games...not really p2w, just slight convenience."

wut?

So glad you understood my reference and don't look like you were the stupid one. No wait.

IP boosters don't really effect the game directly pneuma, thats why I would still not call them pay to win. They save time on getting the champions/runes. I played competitively compeltely f2p, just specialising in the relevant heroes for my playstyle and making sure I had enough variety available.

But they definitely help. Not gonna lie, makes it SO much easier

I don't think the OP really hit on the right reasons to consider stash tabs P2W.

I have felt since the very beginning that Stash Tabs are CLOSE ENOUGH to being Pay 2 Win as to make GGG seem a little silly for saying they are strictly against any type of Pay 2 Win.

Obviously, stash tabs do not directly translate to victory the same as buying some enchanted sword does in some other online game, but stash tabs are downright necessary for serious play. Also, starting with 4 tabs is honestly heinous. Players, especially new ones, should not be expected to start muling and creating secondary accounts after they fill 4 tabs. I'm at like 35 or 40 tabs and I still don't think I have enough for regular, non-competitive gameplay.

I realize tabs are probably the #1 revenue stream for GGG and I totally support that. Obviously I would not have 40 tabs if I thought it was awful for them to do so. But I do feel players should start with a minimum of 6-8 tabs. And I also feel people should accept reality for what it is - no one ever won a 4-month league with 4 stash tabs.

The vast majority of them have to run huge shops requiring huge amounts of space in order to compete. If there happen to be people that are in the top 100 even with 4 stash tabs, it would only be because they have a huge group of people or a guild WITH stash tabs supporting them.

I guess what I'm getting at is, if you absolutely refuse to accept that Stash Tabs are a form of Pay 2 Win, then I'll give you a more accurate term

Pay 2 Have A Chance To Win

Lastly, I want to reiterate that there is NOTHING WRONG with Stash Tabs being the way they are. I only bothered to post because it bothers me that people refuse to accept that they play a large role in being successful in the long-term on this game and in many ways are P2W.

I'll post in this thread only because I like ggnorethx's post. Specifically these parts:

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ggnorekthx a écrit :

Stash Tabs are CLOSE ENOUGH to being Pay 2 Win as to make GGG seem a little silly for saying they are strictly against any type of Pay 2 Win.

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ggnorekthx a écrit :

there is NOTHING WRONG with Stash Tabs being the way they are. I only bothered to post because it bothers me that people refuse to accept that they play a large role in being successful in the long-term on this game and in many ways are P2W.

To be brutally honest, yes, I think stash tabs are pay-to-win. But they are pay to win done right.

Here, let's make a little hierarchy...
Worst Types of P2W: Making it so paying is the only way to achieve the result at all. Example: Creating gear with great stats/abilities which is only possible through microtransactions, or limiting play time unless the payer pays more
Gray Area of P2W: Making it so paying is the only way to achieve the result as quickly. Example: Allowing gear with great stats/abilities to be purchased as microtransactions (while still be available for free the old fashioned way), temporary gold/XP boosts
Best Types of P2W: Making it so paying and/or skill is the only way to achieve the result as quickly. Example: Extra stash tabs (you can either be an organization genius, or you can pay), I honestly can't think of another example at the moment

I do think there are a handful of people out there with photographic memories who don't really need stash tabs (or even Procurement) to use triple-name formulas effectively, and can predict what will and won't sell well enough that they need less tabs for their shop. These people are extremely rare, and most of us make copious mistakes in that department. Hence, we get stash tabs to make up for our lack of skill in that department. Some of us need less than others (I definitely don't need more than ~25 tabs).

Also, if you're wondering, what bothers me most about this belief of mine is that it might be misconstrued as some form of vindication for this thread's creator. No, it's still 100% troll thread, and actually the most dangerous kind. Okay, I get it, technically it does make GGG look a little silly for the reason ggnorethx mentioned. Who gives a fuck? It's still the right, ethical way to implement some kind of pay-to-win. It's still on the right side of the line. Nothing needs to be, nor should be changed. So you end up with pages upon pages of the wrong (in practice) fighting against the wrong (in theory) and it creates a huge issue where the official lie worked just fine and no good comes of it. I probably shouldn't even be bumping this shit.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Best Types of P2W: Making it so paying and/or skill is the only way to achieve the result as quickly. Example: Extra stash tabs (you can either be an organization genius, or you can pay), I honestly can't think of another example at the moment

pseudo-P2W without any modification of character game-state on the server:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/937933

I consider stash tabs slighty p2w. However if they are the most income for GGG, i have nothing against them.

It is only about % of income represented by stash sales: if they are 40-50% of total income, maybe GGG could try to do a more balanced game removing stash tabs and try to double the player base. However, if they are 80-90% of total income, they are pretty mandatory.