MANA LEECH IS RUINED

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Xendran a écrit :

@Tiki: Did you stop to think that the reason that thread got upvoted is because it offered an actual solution instead of "everything is imbalanced" and "tons of builds stopped working"?

It introduces a solution to a problem that many people in this thread claim does not exist.

Or basically, it's hard to talk about a solution or a change when a bunch of people are too busy arguing about how "minor" it is and how it "doesn't matter" and should just "learn to play" instead.

The reddit thread is refreshing because it shows the majority of players - even ones who care a lot about the game (if they didn't, they wouldn't be surfing the PoE subreddit) understand the leech changes are problematic.

However, if you were to read THESE forums, you might get a warped perspective and just conclude that everybody is "whining" or "QQing" or "trolling."

I feel the need to point out that the overwhelming majority of PoE players have never visited either these forums nor Reddit.

Forum users, regardless of how important we might think we are, are always a very small minority of any game's total population.

So, really, while some of us may represent some portion of the game's total population, for any of us to claim that any other user is having similar or identical experience and then extrapolate that it represents anything other than "some percentage of the population" is misguided.

Which is why it is typically better to make your points in relation to examples, numbers, and evidence as opposed to resorting to "the majority" or "most people" in an attempt to persuade others that your argument is more sound.


Now, to attempt to get back onto some semblance of a topic:

Is mana leech ruined? No, I don't think it is.

If you feel as though resource management could use some tweaking, and I don't necessarily disagree that it doesn't, what could you be willing to suggest in the way of workable options?

Perhaps some adjustment to the leech value of the mana leech gem. Perhaps allow gem supported leech to queue. Maybe take a look at skill costs across the board, potentially adjusting either the base or the support modifiers.

What's a barb?

"

Sinnesteuer a écrit :

I feel the need to point out that the overwhelming majority of PoE players have never visited either these forums nor Reddit.

Forum users, regardless of how important we might think we are, are always a very small minority of any game's total population.

So, really, while some of us may represent some portion of the game's total population, for any of us to claim that any other user is having similar or identical experience and then extrapolate that it represents anything other than "some percentage of the population" is misguided.

It isn't misguided. The fundamental concept that polling a subset of a group can tell you something about the entire group is a well established discipline.

Is it a perfect scientific process? Of course not. But having a selection bias for players that care a lot about the game isn't really a bad thing in our context.

In an extreme example, a man named Nate Silver used primarily polls to correctly predict the outcome of a USA presidential election, down to each individual state.

"

Sinnesteuer a écrit :

If you feel as though resource management could use some tweaking, and I don't necessarily disagree that it doesn't, what could you be willing to suggest in the way of workable options?

Perhaps some adjustment to the leech value of the mana leech gem. Perhaps allow gem supported leech to queue. Maybe take a look at skill costs across the board, potentially adjusting either the base or the support modifiers.

I would advise increasing the base mana leech rate to be higher than 12%, or a partial revert of prior changes.

"

Sinnesteuer a écrit :

If you feel as though resource management could use some tweaking, and I don't necessarily disagree that it doesn't, what could you be willing to suggest in the way of workable options?

I made a number of suggestions for this in another thread. These included additional affixes on mana pots, some passives that increase the return from other mana sources (e.g. faster recovery from mana pots, longer mana flask duration, etc.) and some additional affixes for mana recovery that could roll on certain armor or jewelry (I think gloves would be good as there are not enough good affixes on gloves).

I dont personally think "totally ruined" is the right description, but I can understand the sentiment. 1.1 definitely made it harder without giving us many compensating options. This is worst for the very high-end builds which had finely-tuned gear that were marginal for mana - those builds experienced a big reduction in their playability and there's not a lot out there for those players to go search out to compensate. If we had, say a +0.5/mana per hit affix on gloves, at least they could go farm gear looking for the alternative mod. Right now there isnt much in the way of methods to adjust.

I don't really think the leech changed worsened the mana-situation that much. The truth however is that I came to this conclusion not because they don't make the situation worse, but because it already was in a state that required adjustments.

So basically mana still needs attention and there are two easy changes that won't trivialize mana but would improve the situation:

1. Make the cap on mana-leech the same as on life-leech. The main purpose for this is not only to improve the mana-situation but also because it reduces confusing with leech as a mechanic. There is simply no reason why mana should behave otherwise and since this cap is not stated anywhere but very easy to hit, people are often confused why they don't leech as much mana as expected.

2. Make flasks always recover for the full duration. Exspecially with low mana-pools using flasks is entirely useless, because they fill you up and simply stop working afterwards. It doesn't even make sense that they work that way. If a Mana-flask consists of some herbs or whatever that stimulate the process of accumulating magical energy they wouldn't stop working once your mana is full. Those substances are still in the body and they should keep working. Thats propably a too logical approach but in the end the point stands that there is no reason for this behavior. If they are afraid of mods I understand that and the solution is simple, make it a mod itself. So you have flasks that instead of move-speed, remove bleeding etc. have the mod "always lasts for the full duration".

Definitely agree with number 1, although extensive testing would be required. Definitely no to number 2

I tried to build selfcaster fireball witch in Ambush building HEAVILY(including bandit rewards) to mana and manaregen.

I failed.

At 4links I could not sustain LMP fireball when merciless came up.

Having leveled incinerate in backup weapons I switched the gems and I could sustain that, with AA.

Fireball is way too expensive spell, way way way too expensive. Especially compared to damage which seems lackluster compared to incinerate...considering when you build heavily to mana&regen you will not crit with fireball, ever. Critpassives just are totally out of question if you intend to survive even white monsters.

Everyone knows Mana Leech is shit now... The only people disagreeing are the same people who say this game doesn't desync.

As to the notion of it ever getting fixed...

It won't...

We all know how arrogant GGG is...

GGG will never fix an issue if that issue is pointed out by others first...

GGG only changes stuff when they assume they figured it out...

They are an extremely arrogant company...

Case/Point nearly all of their oddball decision that blatantly go against the grain of 20+ years of RPG designs, not to be "unique" but because they truly think they are smarter than all their predecessors...

Yet, not smart enough to fix their desync problem though(actually probably too damn cheap too, refusing to hire someone who can, oh that's arrogance too)... Well never mind I guess they are "unique" since this is the only game ever created in the 20+ years that has a desync problem so ridiculously severe.

This thread keeps getting better and better.