The secret to balancing evasion

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CCR5 a écrit :

let's not change definitions in the middle of discussion, shall we?

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so "REASONABLY COMPARABLE" now means "with less HP"?
come on, guys!

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with d-word you're supposed to tank everything on HC

a) I didn't change anything, you're just ignoring what we are saying for quite a while it seems.

b) Nothing buffs armour but direct increase bonus, where as dext alone gives quite a big boost to evasion <=> it's much easier to get a high evasion value than an armor one => potentially more points to spend in buffer.
My second phrase was also directly related to this argument.


c) Right, going right under Vaal and stay still to take his smash is an obligation in HC, sure.

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tinko92 a écrit :

It's about security, plenty of times Vaal and Dominus do their one shots without any animation or with a horrible desync.

Are you telling me that most people playing HC are stacking armour to survive those mechanism ?
Because I'm not buying lol.
They are stacking life or ES, like evasion users, except that evasion can much more easily have a significant evasion value than armoured char can get a significant armor value in those situations.

I'm gonna say it again : if you get one shot, this is because you messed up your build because your buffer is not high enough ( also end charges help ).
There is no risk if you have enough buffer.

Honestly 9k life for Eva and it beats all armor builds. Hence current game Eva/ES with eb/mom is better than pure Eva with acro

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Fruz a écrit :

Are you telling me that most people playing HC are stacking armour to survive those mechanism ?
Because I'm not buying lol.
They are stacking life or ES, like evasion users, except that evasion can much more easily have a significant evasion value than armoured char can get a significant armor value in those situations.

I'm gonna say it again : if you get one shot, this is because you messed up your build because your buffer is not high enough ( also end charges help ).
There is no risk if you have enough buffer.

I'm not telling you that.

And you've completely ignored the hard hitting monsters on 2+ damage mod maps, because they frequently come as a surprise, which means that endurance charges are probably not up.

By the way, how many endurance charges evasion builds have?

It's about high frequency of hit damage, you can never be sure, I would never take that chance. Even with my spec, I frequently get 5-6k damage from non-boss monsters, with my flasks and charges up, granted, not in a vanilla maps.

And no, there is always a risk.

I'd say that 4 end charges is not difficult to achieve, 5 neither actually ( for an evasion build ).
I didn't ignore hard hitting monsters, they are an issue when they one shot you ( or you tank them in addition to incoming magic damage, but this has not much to do with evasion at this point ).


A risk of being one shot ?
There is none present for evasion users ( considering a good enough build ) more than for average armour users.

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Fruz a écrit :

I'd say that 4 end charges is not difficult to achieve, 5 neither actually ( for an evasion build ).
I didn't ignore hard hitting monsters, they are an issue when they one shot you ( or you tank them in addition to incoming magic damage, but this has not much to do with evasion at this point ).

How come it doesn't have to do with evasion?
I just gave you an example of 5-6k damage with 40k+ armour and 6 charges.

Plus, evasion builds have a lot of trouble getting 8k+ life pool.

Can you name one melee player of 95+ level with pure evasion build? That is doing hard maps, of course.
I've never seen such.

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A risk of being one shot ?
There is none present for evasion users ( considering a good enough build ) more than for average armour users.

Oh come on...

If the hit is 10k, 40k armour would reduce it to ~7.5k, while an evasion build die with 10k life if they take the hit.
If the hit is 7k, 40k armour would reduce it to ~4.7k, while an evasion build with 7k life dies.

I keep reading of "good enough build", can you show me one? Backed up with videos.

By the way, you're comparing a "good enough build" with an average armour build, and average armour builds don't even use Jade/Granite combo and don't have more than 4 charges.

Now evasion have trouble getting 8k+ life pool ? evasion builds don't need to invest as much as armoured build do to usually buff their secondary defense value because of how dext works, which makes more points to spend in life ( and the life wheel is not far away from the evasion wheel as an example ). Note that an aura-oriented build with determination will turn this around, this is true.


This is precisely why I'm talking about "average armour users" : They don't have 40k armor, even with a granite.
A build with 40k armour is either a very very expensive build with enough armour investment ( in term of passive skill points ), or a build heavily using armour from the tree + determination.

I doubt that my computer is good enough to use fraps + PoE, besides my gear is not godlike ( barely 6k ES atm ), I'm just skipping too dangerous maps, but you know what ? that's not because I'm an evasion char at all.


When I mean "goood-enough build", that means a build that has enough life buffer = a build where the user understands how eva works basically.


I don't know about 95+ players actually, I can even say that I don't give a damn since I play solo.
I have seen enough of the pros/cons of eva since I used to be an armor user ( maybe I'll change again later, who knows ) and now I've been using eva for a while, and the argument "you will eventually get hit" is just nonsense, because you need to build your char knowing that you will get hit sometimes, and there is no problem with that.

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Fruz a écrit :

Now evasion have trouble getting 8k+ life pool ? evasion builds don't need to invest as much as armoured build do to usually buff their secondary defense value because of how dext works, which makes more points to spend in life ( and the life wheel is not far away from the evasion wheel as an example ). Note that an aura-oriented build with determination will turn this around, this is true.

They don't? Like any other non-Kaoms user.

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This is precisely why I'm talking about "average armour users" : They don't have 40k armor, even with a granite.
A build with 40k armour is either a very very expensive build with enough armour investment ( in term of passive skill points ), or a build heavily using armour from the tree + determination.

Nonsense, I have ~3k armour from my gear, 92% armour from nodes (6 nodes total) that were along the way.

Determination + Jade/Granite and I'm up on ~45k armour.

Heavy investment? Very very expensive? Not even close.

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I doubt that my computer is good enough to use fraps + PoE, besides my gear is not godlike ( barely 6k ES atm ), I'm just skipping too dangerous maps, but you know what ? that's not because I'm an evasion char at all.

I find MSI Afterburner ten times better than FRAPS.

Is it because you're having hard time getting over 8k life/ES?

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When I mean "goood-enough build", that means a build that has enough life buffer = a build where the user understands how eva works basically.

Can I see one? 95+ level that plays safely 77/78 maps, even hard ones.

I find it hard to claim something and I can't back it up with a practical example.

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I don't know about 95+ players actually, I can even say that I don't give a damn since I play solo.
I have seen enough of the pros/cons of eva since I used to be an armor user ( maybe I'll change again later, who knows ) and now I've been using eva for a while, and the argument "you will eventually get hit" is just nonsense, because you need to build your char knowing that you will get hit sometimes, and there is no problem with that.

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So, what do those builds do, when they know they could get hit by 10k damage?

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Tinko92 a écrit :

Is it because you're having hard time getting over 8k life/ES

ya, godly ES gear falls from the sky, thank you for that ( I have ~1k Raw ES coming from shield + chest together for example ).

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Tinko92 a écrit :

Nonsense, I have ~3k armour from my gear, 92% armour from nodes (6 nodes total) that were along the way.

Determination + Jade/Granite and I'm up on ~45k armour.

Wow, 6 secondes of armour and after that you're back to nothing, that is OP !
You know what ? I can just link IC + Inc duration and I use it right before the hit : I win.

OP


Now if you phantasying on people using armour easily tanking 10k hits, I'm gonna stop talking to you on that matter because this is just pure nonsense.

I'll end this giving you a pro-tip : you can have enough evasion to matter AND use a Kaom's heart ( without godly gear ).

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Fruz a écrit :

ya, godly ES gear falls from the sky, thank you for that ( I have ~1k Raw ES coming from shield + chest together for example ).

So, it is hard.

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Wow, 6 secondes of armour and after that you're back to nothing, that is OP !
You know what ? I can just link IC + Inc duration and I use it right before the hit : I win.

OP

It's usually at least 12 seconds without recharging.

Or you can do that, if you can foresee the future.
Or if you manage to keep up the timer on the charges/IC, for at least 5 hours a day. And I'm the one talking nonsense... eh

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Now if you phantasying on people using armour easily tanking 10k hits, I'm gonna stop talking to you on that matter because this is just pure nonsense.

I'll end this giving you a pro-tip : you can have enough evasion to matter AND use a Kaom's heart ( without godly gear ).

Why is it always like this? I just can't run to someone that doesn't take things on a personal matter.

Not to mention that you've gone out of the topic with this, as people tend to do when I bring up one shots. Can't understand that too.

You've ended it poorly, not enough practical examples.

Seems like evasion's nest is really a tough one to discuss.

There was nothing personal in this tbh. If you think there was, maybe that may be because things that seems normal to your character ( you know ... tanking 10k hits lol ) is actually not happening for 99+% of the population ( or maybe 99.9 actually ) and that it's actually completely irrelevant.
This is basically why I called this nonsense.

I'm not out of the topic at all, you are speaking about something on a timer with downtimes where you seem to be speaking about maps where mobs would hit you for 10k on a regular basis.


IC can easily last at least 4 seconds with 4 end charges, I was speaking of 6 seconds, so that's on the same scale and comparable. Now It's true if you have a perfect ample flask, you can use your jade flask twice, if not you need to reserve 3 slots for potions, probably another one for quicksilver so you have most likely one potion left for health/resources management/one elemental resistance.
That does not make many tools remaining in term of flasks.