The secret to balancing evasion

Hi

I agree with Moosifer. GGG did right to add the life nodes back up to 8,12%. Evasion requires lots of life at the very least but when you start adding further defenses like blocking, acrobatics/phase,ondars guile and even herbalism for faster pots recovery, a player will find that their character might get the occasional damage spike but never otherwise die. Before the new patch my duelist at 79(yes I grabbed lots of life in the dex side of tree) was barely over 2k now its closer to 3k and rarely dies.

Lol the only downside to evasion to me is once your character is working great with evasion you don't want to play any other armour types since the mixture of evading dodging and blocking will spoil you, especially if you spent several previous months playing with armour or using IR(ugh) although before the ev buff it didn't work as good. Using EV makes a player realize how ''magnetic'' their character is with other armour types to monsters hitting.

The best thing to do though is to use a combination of all three types since POE's mechanics use them in different orders: monster attacks, ev chk,acro chck, etc.,etc.

cheers

The only real issue with evasion is that dexterity isnt as good for preper build, as strength or int is. So you stack lots of dexterity which isnt really as useful as it should be.

Something about stacking life on Dex characters goes against my RPG sensibilities. In Diablo 2 Dex did give evasion but it also increased block chance. The ES/AR/EV armor mechanics work alright but they could have been a little better. AR and EV feel like 2 sides of the same coin compared to ES.

Inspired by this idea

I'd like a visual indicator for entropy. Maybe color it yellow and put it on the mana orb, call it "balance". Maybe let "balance" slowly regen out of combat and Dex increases that regen as an attribute property, as opposed to scaling evasion. That gives EV users control over situations like AR and ES users.

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Veta321 a écrit :

Something about stacking life on Dex characters goes against my RPG sensibilities. In Diablo 2 Dex did give evasion but it also increased block chance. The ES/AR/EV armor mechanics work alright but they could have been a little better. AR and EV feel like 2 sides of the same coin compared to ES.

Inspired by this idea

I'd like a visual indicator for entropy. Maybe color it yellow and put it on the mana orb, call it "balance". Maybe let "balance" slowly regen out of combat and Dex increases that regen as an attribute property, as opposed to scaling evasion. That gives EV users control over situations like AR and ES users.

That completely breaks evasion.

"My entropy getting low? better kite for a second"

Never take damage again.

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Autocthon a écrit :

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Veta321 a écrit :

Something about stacking life on Dex characters goes against my RPG sensibilities. In Diablo 2 Dex did give evasion but it also increased block chance. The ES/AR/EV armor mechanics work alright but they could have been a little better. AR and EV feel like 2 sides of the same coin compared to ES.

Inspired by this idea

I'd like a visual indicator for entropy. Maybe color it yellow and put it on the mana orb, call it "balance". Maybe let "balance" slowly regen out of combat and Dex increases that regen as an attribute property, as opposed to scaling evasion. That gives EV users control over situations like AR and ES users.

That completely breaks evasion.

"My entropy getting low? better kite for a second"

Never take damage again.

Isn't that how energy shield and health already work? The above would, mechanically speaking, act like an energy shield on top of energy shield that is more vulnerable to many small hits as opposed to single big hits.

No energy shield and health don't already work that way. They have throttles, ev doesn't.

The way Ev works is just fine. The way people think Ev should work is the problem.

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Autocthon a écrit :

No energy shield and health don't already work that way. They have throttles, ev doesn't.

The way Ev works is just fine. The way people think Ev should work is the problem.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If you are low on life or energy shield you can take time to recover. How is that different than a manageable entropy mechanic? Maybe I should clarify, recharging out of combat means neither dealing or taking damage. So you could not kite.

Further, EV is not fine. Try running a pure EV build on maps without dodge. EV/dodge still pales in comparison to ES and AR.

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Veta321 a écrit :

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Autocthon a écrit :

Further, EV is not fine. Try running a pure EV build on maps without dodge. EV/dodge still pales in comparison to ES and AR.

Just keep telling yourself that.

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Autocthon a écrit :

I'm more than happy to show you the Ev vs Ar helth efficiency in current content if you'd like.

It's irrelevant. I keep saying the biggest difference between armor and evasion is their attribute. Armor users tend to have the advantage of higher life totals because of their str. A evasion mara might be better than an armor mara or any dex evasion user. The only problem with evasion, ever, is being able to handle a tremendous amount of damage from an unlucky crit or a large crowd that breaks evasion.

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Blind can also be attached to a skeleton totem. So no, you don;t need to cut DPS, a skeleton totem with blind will have nearly or total 100% blind uptime on a boss, in an AoE setting it's lower than 100% but you can always have splash skellies (where it aproaches 100% again).

Skelton brotem OP.

valid, I don't have the sockets for skele totem, again, DW using kaoms so stretched pretty thin on sockets at the moment.

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actually it's 20% DR vs 28-36% DR. Not a huge difference without significant base armour which I am (also) more than happy to explain diminishing return on, though suffice it to say you need significant armour to get enough Dr for the ECharges to be individually much more efficient on an Ar character.

I keep forgetting end charges were dropped to 4%. Still safe to say someone specializing in end charges and armor will be able to get 10-20% DR from something like kole's GS. I know I'm just guessing but I think he does 3k damage, 36k armor for 50%, so possibly more than 20% not including end charges.

The big thing with this is an armor user will generally have more life and also have a 28 - +50% DR while evasion will have 20% with a investment in charge charges so they'd still need over 2400 life and hope he doesn't land too many hits before you can recover.

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Given reasonable comparison the real issue is mostly psychological. You make some salient points, given certain assumptions, but there are plenty of use cases that completely sidestep those assumptions.

I'd love to hear you break me down here. I'm speaking from my experiences in high level maps. My reave build with 50% evasion, 50% block and 3.5k life felt useless. When I did a 77 map I got stomped, on top of that I was so heavily invested in life my DPS blew so I felt squishy and couldn't kill quickly to get out of it. With my latest guy I have 30% evasion (no mana to run grace, most of my damage is from anger/wrath) 40% dodge, 63% block (ungil's OP) and 6.5k life, I feel MUCH better. I faced the weaker dominus on a 74 map and I would have had him w/o dying if I had any previous experience against him. My previous build wouldn't have stood a chance because of the big elemental damage which blind and end charges aren't going to help at all against.

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Moosifer a écrit :

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Autocthon a écrit :

I'm more than happy to show you the Ev vs Ar helth efficiency in current content if you'd like.

It's irrelevant. I keep saying the biggest difference between armor and evasion is their attribute. Armor users tend to have the advantage of higher life totals because of their str. A evasion mara might be better than an armor mara or any dex evasion user. The only problem with evasion, ever, is being able to handle a tremendous amount of damage from an unlucky crit or a large crowd that breaks evasion.

And I keep telling you the difference prepatch even after factoring attributes was on the order of about 10% HP in gear. That's close enough to have no significant difference on what can and cannot kill you in one hit.

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Blind can also be attached to a skeleton totem. So no, you don;t need to cut DPS, a skeleton totem with blind will have nearly or total 100% blind uptime on a boss, in an AoE setting it's lower than 100% but you can always have splash skellies (where it aproaches 100% again).

Skelton brotem OP.

valid, I don't have the sockets for skele totem, again, DW using kaoms so stretched pretty thin on sockets at the moment.

You're using Kaom's. That throws a significant potential chunk of evasion out the window for a bunch of life. Admittedly that life is useful, but even without it you shouldn't be getting one shot outside of a few specific attacks (which pretty much one shot armour users too), and once again if you ask I can show you the math for thresholds.

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actually it's 20% DR vs 28-36% DR. Not a huge difference without significant base armour which I am (also) more than happy to explain diminishing return on, though suffice it to say you need significant armour to get enough Dr for the ECharges to be individually much more efficient on an Ar character.

I keep forgetting end charges were dropped to 4%. Still safe to say someone specializing in end charges and armor will be able to get 10-20% DR from something like kole's GS. I know I'm just guessing but I think he does 3k damage, 36k armor for 50%, so possibly more than 20% not including end charges.

Kole GS is closer to about 4k before damage reduction mechanics. That's non-map.

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The big thing with this is an armor user will generally have more life and also have a 28 - +50% DR while evasion will have 20% with a investment in charge charges so they'd still need over 2400 life and hope he doesn't land too many hits before you can recover.

Kole's GS can be evaded, the kole fight is in fact a duel, which is in fact heavily in favor of Ev mechanics over armour mechanics.

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Given reasonable comparison the real issue is mostly psychological. You make some salient points, given certain assumptions, but there are plenty of use cases that completely sidestep those assumptions.

I'd love to hear you break me down here. I'm speaking from my experiences in high level maps. My reave build with 50% evasion, 50% block and 3.5k life felt useless. When I did a 77 map I got stomped, on top of that I was so heavily invested in life my DPS blew so I felt squishy and couldn't kill quickly to get out of it. With my latest guy I have 30% evasion (no mana to run grace, most of my damage is from anger/wrath) 40% dodge, 63% block (ungil's OP) and 6.5k life, I feel MUCH better. I faced the weaker dominus on a 74 map and I would have had him w/o dying if I had any previous experience against him. My previous build wouldn't have stood a chance because of the big elemental damage which blind and end charges aren't going to help at all against.

What were you supporting your Reave build with defensively. Legacy Kaom's trivializes content regardless of Ev or Ar, so it's difficult to gauge which build is actually defensively optimized to use Ev.