How to fix the whole Righteous Fire problem

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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entropus a écrit :

30% more DPS? You serious?
Two auras more because you can put them on life? For an item that's one of the rarest in the game?

Redbeak...? Wondertrap...? Yep, Scrotie, you made my day.

Why should I even CONSIDER using that items?

Redbeak is truly just a budget wand, but Wondertraps are actually pretty amazing. And scoffing at 30% more DPS and extra auras shows how spoiled you really are.

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entropus a écrit :

Why should I put on WT? To get rid of 1/5 of my ES I have on boots?

Do you actually play this game? There's no way your boots are 20% of your ES. More like 10%. And the answer to why you'd give up that 10%: for 100% IIR, that's why

Do you even play this game? Why should I need IIR for maps with my main char when I can do LT2-3 for a 10 times more efficient farming with my farming char. And I wrote I dont care about IIR on my main char, as my farming char has enough of it...

Also, Scrotie please. Wondertrap? With no res? No 90 mana bonus like on Rainbowstride? No spell block? Lawl. You can get RS for like 2 exa, 4 linked... If one is spoiled by comparing WT to a cheap-ass unique like RS, then we're living in two different time-space continuums.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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entropus a écrit :

With a non-CI ES build I would not round around maps with chaos damage and 25% faster/30% more damage mobs with Chaos damage.

You wouldn't. And I'm not of the opinion that every build should be able to run every map; actually, I quite emphatically believe that every build should have maps which it should not run.

Yeah, it's better to hide behind bushes and rocks, poking out for two seconds to kill one zombie that takes away 90% of your hp/es just by looking at you angrily.

No man, I strive for a character that can beat this game.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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entropus a écrit :

Also, as a personal taste, I distaste hybrid as non-canonical, not keeping with the true spirit of being a sorcerer-type of character. Either go full-magic and keep some feeble, little physical form

Then go CI.

Then go play Left For Dead, or find some HnS in which slaying one zombie after a 10 minute fight is an achievement.

BTW Played CI, was fun. Got Shav's, it's more fun and still canoncial feeling.

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K1kk0m4n a écrit :

Why not change RF dmg problem solved?

I alluded to this in my reply to CanHasPants: RF should be usable as a skill without so much building around it. If you just nerf the damage, it becomes even more useless; whereas my version would be something you could use in a race when you got it as a quest reward if you just grabbed a pair of Ruby Rings.

Actually, one more change: Righteous Fire (and Blood Rage) to 0.5 seconds (from 1.0). Adding that to the OP.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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entropus a écrit :

With nerfing RF, Shav's gonna be pretty much useless.
Nerfing RF nerfs Shav's.

No, and sort of, in that order.

The "No" part: Shav's still gets PA, and Shav's still gets life as an aura reservation resource. It still gets Redbeak and Wondertrap. RF is far from the only trick Shav's has, and it would still be a highly sought-after unique. I don't want to nerf those cool low-life tricks.

Redbeak is a joke. Moonsorrow does more DPS.
Wondertrap is a joke. Goldwyrm is far superior. Use Wondertrap, find the equivalent of stacks of alts. Using Goldwyrm + Sadima = find Uniques and Orbs.


Do you guys remember when it was cool to complain about Lioneye Glare instead?

Righteus fire =

Now deals % more damage based on current hp.
Deals 100% of hp as fire damage to self.

Effect on low life builds --> since they only have 20/30% of max hp, they only gain a 30% more modifier to damage.
(however they can stil enable pain atunement to get a decent 60% more modifier)

Other result's from aplying this way of RF = all sources get a MORE modifier not only spell power, enabling melee RF builds that gain damage by using RF (balancing the massive cost of regen nodes in the passive tree)

When you are able to run 100%hp RF u gain 100% more damage, therefore giving a clear downside in comparison to low life builds.


On the mather of elemental adeptation.

I believe the nodes in the midle area of the passive tree could work for this.
There are 3 resistence nodes just before regen in the midle of the tree, i figure each of them could be +2 max resis for there element, making elemental adeptation far superior, since it is 1 point for +2 all max resis.

But stil giving all characters an option to get +2 max resis without traveling to the marauder tree. (at the cost of 3 points)

This would result in +4 max resis when ure making a life based RF build, since u can not affort to not get the regen in the midle of the tree.

Edit: an aditional solution for life based rf could be a simple mather of making it 95% of hp damage to self as fire. (but i feel this might make it really easy to make life rf builds i sort of enjoy the challenge in getting them to work)

Its cool to complain about everything cos it still beta :p

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Boem a écrit :

Righteus fire =

Now deals % more damage based on current hp.
Deals 100% of hp as fire damage to self.

Effect on low life builds --> since they only have 20/30% of max hp, they only gain a 30% more modifier to damage.
(however they can stil enable pain atunement to get a decent 60% more modifier)

Other result's from aplying this way of RF = all sources get a MORE modifier not only spell power, enabling melee RF builds that gain damage by using RF (balancing the massive cost of regen nodes in the passive tree)

When you are able to run 100%hp RF u gain 100% more damage, therefore giving a clear downside in comparison to low life builds.


On the mather of elemental adeptation.

I believe the nodes in the midle area of the passive tree could work for this.
There are 3 resistence nodes just before regen in the midle of the tree, i figure each of them could be +2 max resis for there element, making elemental adeptation far superior, since it is 1 point for +2 all max resis.

But stil giving all characters an option to get +2 max resis without traveling to the marauder tree. (at the cost of 3 points)

This would result in +4 max resis when ure making a life based RF build, since u can not affort to not get the regen in the midle of the tree.

THIS THIS THIS THIIIS :) wow how did u come to think of that :O

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

I used to believe that too. But I've been thinking about it, and RF's current design is laughably useless if you aren't built specifically for it.

Isn't that kind of the point? Isn't it the same way with EK, or Discharge, or Flicker Strike, or any other skill in the game (with a few exceptions)? That's what you build around, your skills. All of your passive and gear choices are made to facilitate the use of a particular set of skills in pursuit of making monsters more dead than you..

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Who wants to reduce themselves to one life through self-inflicted burning damage? No one? I thought so.

Going slightly off topic, but I do! I have plans for a full life/ES hybrid RF Burn / RF Spell Damage / EE build once Anarchy lets out. Not only am I taking plenty of +life nodes, but Inc Burning and IF as well. Why? Because I laugh at (237% - 94% max res) of 2-3k life taken as fire damage to ES, all thanks to ZO. Well, and Blood Dance. According to all my maths, I'll still be out-regenerating increased burning RF.

Going slightly back on topic, I expect the build to be rightly OP, but not because RF is flawed. Because ZO is sploitz. Point is, the only reason Shav is the only build to use RF is because everybody else is too busy QQing over the "life nerf to RF" to get creative.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

On the other hand, a design that lasts 4 seconds on 75% fire resistance and only eats all of your ES, without touching your life... that's something you can actually imagine a level 20-something character using on occasion, because it's not idiotically suicidal. It would be nice if Righteous Fire actually had some utility in races and such, where builds aren't as strict. The original design fails horribly at this objective and caters only to the "build around me" objective, requiring specific commitments of some kind (even if it is just a single unique and decent rares).

As such, I've made my piece with Zealot's Oath. It's not ZO that's bad because RF goes from stupid horrible to stupid amazing after taking ZO; it's RF's fault for being stupid horrible before, and stupid amazing after.

I don't dispute that a change to RF could make it a right fun skill to use, but I feel as though this is failing your own directive--diagnose the problem and not its symptom. RF, imo, is a symptom of ZO. At least according to my reasoning that it was a well conceived skill prior to ZO, easier to use but still balanced after ZO, and stupid amazing after ZO and Shavs. The latter wouldn't be stupid amazing without ZO.

Fake Edit: Kind of missing the point of my own post, but I'm being rushed to leave soon..

@ canhaspants

I agree sort of, some skills should not be usable in races. Races is about skill and making deu with what u have, not adjusting skill design to you, but adjusting yourself to posible skills and thinking of ways so they have a greater impact on your gameplay. (the perfect example is the cleave + dual elemental damage bonus, when this idee hit kripp, he suddenly won like 30 solo races in a row, and it was his idee that made him win 30 times)

RF should not be made to acomodate low levels, this would deminish the joy of enabling it at higher levels. And might destroy current users builds.

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reboticon a écrit :

Wondertrap is a joke. Goldwyrm is far superior.

If you had 100 IIQ and 150 IIR before putting on boots, and your choices were Wondertraps or Goldwyrm, you'd find 21% more uniques/rares with Wondertraps compared to Goldwyrm, and 15% more currency with Goldwyrm compared to Wondertraps. Since rares equals Chaos Orbs (vendor formula), I'd say Wondertraps have a slight edge if MF is the sole focus. So while I agree with the general assessment that IIQ > IIR, IIQ isn't so far ahead that it can take 3:1 ratios and still come out on top. (If Wondertraps was only 70 IIR you'd undoubtedly be right.)

Righteouse Fire should have "Burn damage from this skill ignore Energy Shield".
This way Shav would be what it supposed to be - low life enabler, witch by itself gives alot: Pain Atunement, additional auras and 'on low life' uniqs. But it won't be mandatory chest for every spell caster in the game because nothing beats double dps as it allows for too much freedom in other areas of your char (like defensive or MF gear instead of dps gear) I really like Shav, it is great uniq and not OP by itself but it makes all other caster chest pointless because of RF. This needs to change.