How to change Jeweler and fusing orbs

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BazzV5 a écrit :

It's funny but I think this thread helps to explain why with an even playing field, (we all start with nothing), some players get all the nice things and some players do not.

The fact that we have an even playing field is completely irrelevant to the topic.

If you are talking about races/time limited ladder, than the system is already really broken (and there are many threads on this)

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BazzV5 a écrit :

Seriously man I give up.

With your attitude of not seeing things from other peoples shoes, thats not surprising

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deteego a écrit :

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

Good

Makes you think which item is actually better.

No it doesn't, it just makes the number of "better" items massively smaller than any other aRPG out there. Its blindingly obvious and trivial to tell which item is better in this game, you are making it sound like it adds depth, the thing is, its not adding depth at all

Apart from D3 (and im sure you don't want to go there, a game where you reach a point where 99% of the loot is "worse" and you end up just farming gold for AH)

No it doesn't. Since you can change the gear yourself.

Let me pose a question. Let's say you get very lucky and find a 5L the moment they start dropping. Or even a 6L. Should you be entitled to retaining that amount of links just because you found one prior?

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

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jeois a écrit :

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BazzV5 a écrit :

... What tends to get my back up though is the excuses that people are using for wanting a change. To me, excuses such as making it more like other arpgs, or it's too hard, or it's nothing but RNG, etc etc are not valid reasons to change the current system.

Come on, we've given you plenty of reasons besides those "excuses."

1. Active skills are arguably more important to your build than anything else (including passives and attributes), and you have almost no control over it.

2. There's a quality gradient whereas 5S is definitely better than 1S, so it's not like a subjective thing only pertinent to your particular build. Therefore, fusings/jewelers should work like armourer's scraps or GCPs, especially considering sockets and links are even more essential than quality (reason #1 again).

3. The marginal utility of using a fusing to upgrade 4L or 5L is NEGATIVE; imagine the consequences of using something like this as currency for the long-term. It's hard to predict exactly what will happen because we don't know all the variables, but it can't be good for the economy.

Question:

Can you name ONE build that REQUIRES a 6L? Without it, it cannot function AT ALL.

Again, I not saying we NEED 6L, but we should be able to attain it through some process that's not purely random. Let me preface that unlike some advocating change, I don't mind if it's much harder to get 6L as long as it's not so random.

I'm getting really repetitive in these threads. We're not asking for an easy 6L; we just don't like gambling with the core functionality of builds.

And... 6L is a bad example. I'm more concerned about 4L and 5L. If you roll 4S 3L with fusings, the probability of you DECREASING value is higher than making it 4L. So, nobody is going to use fusings until they get to end-game--a problem like other "useless" currency orbs. There are orbs, on the other hand, where the marginal utility is always positive or at least neutral. Then, there are orbs whose price and utility are completely off the scale. BUT, I'm going off on a tangent about relative orb value, but it's related.

TL;DR. No build should "require" 6L, but that's besides the point of why fusings/jewelers should be changed.


P.S. really, please stop using straw men arguments guys.

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

No it doesn't. Since you can change the gear yourself.

Which has way too much risk (unless you are overloaded with currency), so we are back to square #1

You are forgetting that aRPGS like TL,D3,TQ allow you to change the gear as well? Either that or they give no RNG, no risk crafting

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

Let me pose a question. Let's say you get very lucky and find a 5L the moment they start dropping. Or even a 6L. Should you be entitled to retaining that amount of links just because you found one prior?

You are coming up with hypothetical scenarious

In terms of probability, the odds of finding a better item than the one you are currently holding, with defining better as

1. Equal/more sockets
2. Equal/more links
3. Same color arrangement
4. Better mods

Is really really really really really low

To fix those things (if you dont get #1 and #2 and #3 and #4), you need to use a very very very very high amount orbs (with completely random effects as consequences)

Most other aRPGS only have #4, there is no #1,#2,#3. So all that PoE is doing is just making better gear much harder to get, its not making the decision more difficult

D3 has the same problem, except with D3 its the fact that they have mixed affixes and suffixes completely, there is no lower bound on rolls, and each item has a massive mod pool (so if you do the maths, the odds of getting good gear is almost zlich)

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deteego a écrit :

With your attitude of not seeing things from other peoples shoes, thats not surprising

I see your point of view but it's just so wrong on so many counts.

Take this one for instance.

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deteego a écrit :

You are missing the point, you have to
#1. Find an item that you want to eqip because of mods

#2. Spend currency/time to find an insurance item

#3. Spend currency fixing the item your just found so it wont kill your skill build

#4. Finally actually equip the item

Because of points #2 and #3, the gap between #1< ---->#4 is disgustingly massive, much more than any other aRPG to date.

#1 You find an item you want to equip
#2 Is irrelevant because you're already wearing the "backup"
#3 Obviously
#3 Yipeee

So in reality it's find an item and craft it. It's just 2 steps but your reality sees it as being a lot more difficult and a lot more complex than it really is.

I wish I had the energy to address each of your responses but as a whole, your mind is clearly made up and no amount of effort on my part is gonna change that.

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BazzV5 a écrit :

I see your point of view but it's just so wrong on so many counts.

Its wrong because its not your PoV and you are not experiencing it

Every single argument that has been put forward for people that do not like this system, your reply boils down to "I am not having this issue, I am not getting this problem, hence its not an issue"

You do realize you actually havn't given a single comprehensive argument backing your reasons for defending it, apart from less RNG = easier, which is bullshit that has been disproved some time back

So I am going to ask you to provide a comprehensive argument why you think the current system is better relative to our problems that is not just RNG = difficulty

Its easier to disagree with something if you don't give a proper argument, but it just makes you stubbon/stonewalling for no reason, which is what you are (without making it sound like a personal attack)

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BazzV5 a écrit :

#1 You find an item you want to equip
#2 Is irrelevant because you're already wearing the "backup"
#3 Obviously
#3 Yipeee

So in reality it's find an item and craft it. It's just 2 steps but your reality sees it as being a lot more difficult and a lot more complex than it really is.

I wish I had the energy to address each of your responses but as a whole, your mind is clearly made up and no amount of effort on my part is gonna change that.

Please don't quote me out of context

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BazzV5 a écrit :

It's funny but I think this thread helps to explain why with an even playing field, (we all start with nothing), some players get all the nice things and some players do not.

Those guys are lucky where other players are unlucky. Thanks for giving proof.

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jeois a écrit :

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BazzV5 a écrit :

It's funny but I think this thread helps to explain why with an even playing field, (we all start with nothing), some players get all the nice things and some players do not.

Those guys are lucky where other players are unlucky. Thanks for giving proof.

Hook, line and sinker

Either that or those players play the game for 10 hours a day like Kripp

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jeois a écrit :

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BazzV5 a écrit :

It's funny but I think this thread helps to explain why with an even playing field, (we all start with nothing), some players get all the nice things and some players do not.

Those guys are lucky where other players are unlucky. Thanks for giving proof.

There must be a differentiation between players in gear, that's obvious. Time investment should be a criterion. Knowing the game good should be another, and performing well in-game, another (which hardly counts in PoE).

However, a rookie should look at Kripp and say: "If I put 10 hours/day, learn the game, make a good build, and play good (ahem), I will have the same good gear Kripp has".

Is this true? Hell no. First, Kripp obviously has legions of whisperers "OMG Kripp I wanna lick your feet I pay in Exalts!!@!!!". Secondly, the rookie might not have a party like Kripp to faceroll the game. And thirdly, the rookie might not have the same amount of luck as Kripp and waste many Exalts in Fusings etc. to get something - if anything. He could also get, let's say, a 6L, in fewer tries.

6L is supposed to be a luxury item - and instead of making it a goal, it's put on RNG and RNG only.

Of course, not considering trading, which is basically bypassing RNG. Good, good. At least we have this one system to avoid the gambling crap.

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Undon3 a écrit :

Of course, not considering trading, which is basically bypassing RNG. Good, good. At least we have this one system to avoid the gambling crap.

Well the thing is, if this is going to be a game where, at some point, you acquire all of your gear through an AH system, its not really an ARPG anymore, its more a MMO.

ARGPS are primarily about 2 things

1. Gameplay (combat, grinding)
2. The loot you get from #1

The minute players are forced to get loot from an AH system, and more importantly, the game turns into a game where success = the most effecient way to grind currency, we are going into MMO territory, and if PoE is going planning to turn into such a game, I would rather play a proper MMO that does this job much better

Its already been stated many times by GGG that the whole reasons orbs were implemented, and why there isn't gold in PoE, is so that people actually find loot useful and are able to do something with it. Orbs are there so you can modify your loot into something you find useful. They don't want PoE to be a game where you have to constantly shift through an AH to find gear so you can progress, and you spend the game farming currency for that sake.

The problem is, PoE is starting to turn into this, because the RNG on orbs is so massive that its not overall stable enough to use on your gear to turn it into something useful, for reasons that have already been explained in this thread.

For this reason, people are not using orbs as their intended purpose (modifying gear for your purposes), instead people are using orbs as a replacement as gold, which is the exact opposite of what GGG want in PoE.

PoE currently does not have a barter, it has haggling one. Bartering is where you offer different items for what you want to buy, that are not correlated or related to eachother at all. Instead what we have now is the standard where items are bought with orbs, and orbs have standard exchange rate, just like you have cents/dollars etc etc

I have actually tried bartering many tiems, more often than not, people just ask for these things

Chaos/Alchs/Ex/GCP's etc etc, all of these having a standard exchange rate. I have never actually been able to trade an item for another item, because odds are, even if that item should be good for that other person (like it has great mods), it may not have enough sockets or links, and so that person will end up having to put more effort (i.e. time and currency) just to make that item useful