How to change Jeweler and fusing orbs

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

I call BS on people who say they don't use any orbs while leveling. I know I do. And if there ever was a recipe for linking items, it would have to be more expensive than attempting to roll the item with single use orbs. Since the complaint seems more based on the premise that people don't use orbs at lower levels, I fail to understand how this would alleviate this problem.

Lets be clear here, because you are putting words in my mouth

I said up to around 60, its pays off to burn currency because of numerous reasons

1. The odds of getting a 3L (up to that point in time) is not that bad
2. The odds of getting a socket arrangement that you find adequate on vendors is quite good (which allows you to easily alchemist/socket white equipment with the same socket arrangement)
3. Due to the difficulty curve, going back on a link isn't as bad as when you hit 60+, at which point in time going back on sockets is the difference between doing dying and living (due to the random nature of maps)

Crafting is better on lower levels, because the odds of getting 2L's/3L's is much much much much much better than 4L+. Its when you start hitting around level 50, that the issue starts. The amount of orbs you burn in trying to mantain gear upgrades far surpass's the amount of currency you obtain, I think I estimate that in going from 1-60, you will probably find around 100 fusings naturally. It doesn't take einstein to realize that that is not enough fusings to sustain upgrading items to the socket arrangements you need at higher levels.

Also at this point in time (again due to odds), finding 4L's+ in vendors is incredibly rare. I in fact have never seen a 5L or a 6L at a vendor, and 4L's are very rare (thats not even taking into account that vendors only refresh every 24 hours)

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raz0r_boy a écrit :

Doesn't change the point...i took a 5L as an exampe.
You don't want to burn orbs, to make the item better..without some guarantee that it will not get worse.

If it relates to skills, than yes, anything else no

As I said earlier, there is a better argument for fusings/jewellers to work the same way that GCP's/blacksmith/armorours currently work, and make GCP's/blacksmiths/armorers use pure RNG (that goes both up and down)

Item quality just makes the implicit values on an item stronger or weaker, it doesn't change skills at all

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raz0r_boy a écrit :

Well, that's probably because it's not the point? you're not supposed to have a 5L in mid gear simply because you don't need a 5L in mid gear and because it can't even roll in mid level..
And yet again, if you don't want to break your current gear, then don't? get a second chest, wep or whatever and play with that one

This is nothing got to do with 5L or 6L, its got to do with better gear dropping that you can't eqip because it has a different socket arrangement

lets be clear here, at around levels 1-20, 1-2L is standard, 20-40 you have 3L, and 40-60 you need a 4L. If you do end game maps, at this point you need to look into 5L, for obvious reasons

The point here is, at any time (within those brackets), if a better gear drops (lets say a wand). You first need to burn orbs on that gear so the socket arrangement is the same (to maintain your current skill build). Its irrelevant how many links you need, at any point in time you are need to either keep (or improve) the number of brackets

Now obviously, the odds of getting a 4L is much lower than a 2L, and same goes for 5L and 6L.

The issue here is that you don't actually obtain enough currency naturally to afford getting 4L's plus (which is when you hit the 50+ mark), both due to the really low chance, the RNG nature and the fact that it can kill your current build (which often forces you to get insurance, which means more effort spending finding an insurance item). In this whole period of time, nothing is being equipped, the gear just sits there

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deteego a écrit :

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geradon a écrit :

i would even suggest making gcps added gem quality random inbetween a 3-5% range per roll. but the devs probably thought some orb is needed as a kind of stable currency. i don't think it's neccessary.

You are also contradicting your own point in bringing up the example of GCP/armor/blacksmith. Why should they be deterministic and not other features? (If anything, there is more of a reason to put RNG into blacksmith/armor than jewellers/fusings)

that's what i meant (but not wrote) in my post with gcp giving a random quality percentage. it could be negative as well.

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

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jeois a écrit :

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BazzV5 a écrit :

... What tends to get my back up though is the excuses that people are using for wanting a change. To me, excuses such as making it more like other arpgs, or it's too hard, or it's nothing but RNG, etc etc are not valid reasons to change the current system.

Come on, we've given you plenty of reasons besides those "excuses."

1. Active skills are arguably more important to your build than anything else (including passives and attributes), and you have almost no control over it.

2. There's a quality gradient whereas 5S is definitely better than 1S, so it's not like a subjective thing only pertinent to your particular build. Therefore, fusings/jewelers should work like armourer's scraps or GCPs, especially considering sockets and links are even more essential than quality (reason #1 again).

3. The marginal utility of using a fusing to upgrade 4L or 5L is NEGATIVE; imagine the consequences of using something like this as currency for the long-term. It's hard to predict exactly what will happen because we don't know all the variables, but it can't be good for the economy.

Question:

Can you name ONE build that REQUIRES a 6L? Without it, it cannot function AT ALL.

I play 2h per day, I don't trade, I start new characters when they reach act 3 merc. I have huge problems having enough 4L with proper colors on all my characters. And when I do, 10 levels later I am supposed to upgrade as I notice I kill slow and survive harder and I cannot get enough 4L with proper colors before running out of currency.

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Torin a écrit :

I play 2h per day, I don't trade, I start new characters when they reach act 3 merc. I have huge problems having enough 4L with proper colors on all my characters. And when I do, 10 levels later I am supposed to upgrade as I notice I kill slow and survive harder and I cannot get enough 4L with proper colors before running out of currency.

Exactly. The game is, simply put, not fun when it forces you back to lower socket setups while still in the leveling process. Going from 4 to 5 and even 6 links is just a bonus and is fine being exclusive. Going back from 4 to 3 or even 2 means many build is broken.

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Ferumbras a écrit :

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Torin a écrit :

I play 2h per day, I don't trade, I start new characters when they reach act 3 merc. I have huge problems having enough 4L with proper colors on all my characters. And when I do, 10 levels later I am supposed to upgrade as I notice I kill slow and survive harder and I cannot get enough 4L with proper colors before running out of currency.

Exactly. The game is, simply put, not fun when it forces you back to lower socket setups while still in the leveling process. Going from 4 to 5 and even 6 links is just a bonus and is fine being exclusive. Going back from 4 to 3 or even 2 means many build is broken.

Actually my last experience with it is even worse. I just reached lvl 56 with my bow shadow. I had a useful lvl 56 ES armor waiting for me to use so I can finally switch from life to CI. But while trying to 4L it and get a proper color setup I ran out of chromatics. So not only did I not use it to not lose my skills but I also was not able to go CI. It is bad enough that CI is really weak through most of the content and it is only smart to take it once you are in act 2 or 3 merc, but even when I wanted to take it I could not because of RNG stupidity that is Fusions/jews/chroms even with 4L or less..