Please bring map boss hp down
" No it's because it's not rewarding for it to be killed the fuck dude LOL Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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" Gotta love sid's sage predictions. Almost seems like he knows what he is talking about sometimes - "won't cut it no more". This is probably the same guy arguing that glass cannon builds couldn't do guardians or shaper because those bosses have too much HP. Hmmmmmm. |
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" I dont have to interact with bosses, i skip them. So GGG failed here, sorry. |
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" Of course the number of monsters matter, have fun sustaining t16 .... Point is : people would not run those maps for xp anyway before you just don't sustain them to chain them. The whole point of those maps is to have an epic boss fights, the mobs are merely bonuses that comme with it, not the other way around. " I have to agree with that. And btw, it's funny seeing people @"Boss have too much HP, I CANNOT KILL THEM WHILE BEING PERMANENTLY UNDER FLASK EFFECT OMG WTF" !!! It really tells a lot how much the game has changed, and more important how the player base has ... and for I_NO : what do you propose ? That all boss always drop a map of the next tier, to end up having everybody run white maps and be done with the atlas after 3 days in a league ?? Or having bosses drop uniques so that the unique value drop like hell and most of them will be even more worthless, meaning it will have solved nothing but inflating the market even more ? Or having them drop currency to inflate the market currency wise, reducing the time needed to reach a good enough level of gearing ? How would you add more loot to them, they already often give you tons of rare an occasionally unique(s) or a map ? A significant xp boost for some of the bosses is the only think that I can see that would give an actual good incentive to killing them, without having big collateral damages. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" No, they punished players for actually playing the game, rather than the metagame... Which is par for the course. (see also: scamming/flipping earns currency far faster than actually farming could) " Sure, if that helps you feel better about you intentionally gimp your own progress, then go for it. Far be it from me to tell someone that they're wrong to play the game in the particular manner as they feel. However, one player's own self-challenge decisions do NOT actually have any impact on the game's balance. While I won't criticize your choice to do all map bosses, I *can* point out the fact, is that your EXP/hr, as well as likely your exalts/hr, both suffer as a result of your gameplay strategy. " Sustain stopped really being part of the equation over a year ago, really. And it's not strictly necessary, either; one doesn't HAVE to chain the exact same map over and over again, it's just that the best EXP/hr comes from a tier low enough one CAN sustain it indefinitely through Atlas shaping manipulation. So the question on that side is whether supplementing a normal diet of Shaped Strand with the occasional guardian would increase or decrease your EXP/hr, and it's clear the answer is the latter. Though yes, the core point I was getting at remains exactly what you said: people run Guardian maps for their boss fights, because there's a REASON for them. No, for 99% of us, they're not "epic;" (e.g, I don't consider "hold right-click on Minotaur until he dies" epic) but rather, we do it because of the loot. Same reason why someone would do normal Atziri when you're well past any reasonable gains from T4 maps; she might drop a Catalyst, Invitation, or possibly even a Mortal fragment. " That's actually the core of what I'd want to see. Right now, the endgame EXP system is BADLY screwed up; GGG balances it with crude maneuvers around one tiny, tiny, TINY subset of players: 24/7 streamers that race to level 100. GGG's motive is that they're upset that their best streamers will race to 100, and then, within a week of league starting, quit and go back to playing more profitable games for the rest of the season, like Overwatch or Hearthstone. For some reason, GGG still thinks PoE is a tiny, fledgling game, and not one that's consistently stuck in Steam's top 10 played. (at least for the first few weeks of a league) Hence, they think that they NEED that streamer exposure so badly, so they've thrown every roadblock to nerf EXP gains in the endgame they can think of, (T4+ maps don't even count as their monster level, an outright REDUCTION to EXP gains in the 90s, etc.) JUST to try to arbitrarily pad a few minutes/hours onto their "streamer exposure" timer each league. Obviously, the strategy hasn't worked when I measured the padding in "minutes/hours." As of writing this, HC Harbinger is some 65M away from their first 100, which means it'll likely occur around 4PM today: so a grand total of five days (120 hours) to get to 100. Meanwhile, for a lot of us other players (especially those of us "serious" players who do stuff like go 40/40, but don't professionally stream) these nerfs really hurt hard. These nerfs are WHY the "Shaped Strand meta" etc. all came to be, since people just resorted to spamming max EXP/hr. So yes, EXP needs to be redone. And one major way it could help would be making a boss's EXP reward commensurate to the time invested to fight them, rather than just be equal to one trash white mob pack. Item rewards might be nice, too: no, they don't have to be ways that tank the economy: just look at what GGG's done with labyrinth. (seriously, if you've not stopped to check, go and find those side-caches and silver keys) Granted, some rewards don't make sense as zone-end rewards, (such as the perma-acceleration-shrine, which is EPIC) but there's certainly some options. But overall, what I'd want to do to fix game play balance in terms of EXP:
I'll likely provide something more in-depth later, as its own thread; this is, after all, something I've thought on for MONTHS. Rufalius, hybrid Aura/Arc/Mana Guardian | Hemorae, TS Raider | Wuru, Ele Hit Wand Trickster
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I mean, I guess I really just don't understand why people would object to lowering the baseline a bit. If you're a player who craves difficulty, run higher-tier maps. Roll dangerous mods. Run guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri. You've got options. You're even rewarded for doing so through higher quantity/rarity/pack size bonuses. If you don't like a more difficult game as much, though, you have no such options.
A lot of people seem to forget, the majority of players are far more casual, don't play meta builds, and don't have access to the sort of gear more serious characters have. Having maps as they are now is going to frustrate those sorts of players, and really does nothing for the hardcore players. If you tone things down a bit, now the more casual players are happy and the hardcores can still play brutal maps by rolling harder mods. I should also point out, many hardcore players who call out "casual babbies" just run shaped strand with easy mods ad nauseum, so I'm really not sure what they're complaining about. |
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" It's precisely because the maps that you can easily run in a line are easily sustainable that they provide the best xp/hour ... You don't get t16 from shaped strand, and those maps are worth something, the whole and only point of those maps is to get the fragments, that's it. That's why those are completely out of the debate here, the mobs in there are the bonus, not the boss. And if you only fight Minotaur with a right click facetanking (probably cheezy) build, well good for you. Some of those xp suggestions are not that bad, but boss should not provide as far as a proportional time investment imho, they already have a 20% map slot and quite a bit of rarity or qty, plus some are not even alone giving this (only one extra map slot though ). Completely against removing the exp penalty though, that's a different debate too there. And of course it's better to party, if there was no incentive to partying then people would not play together, and it's not what GGG wants imho. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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ACGIFT, spot on, regarding shifting rewards into the bosses themselves.
I'd further suggest that, rather than removing exp from the trash packs themselves to offset this, remove some trash packs entirely and fold both their exp and items into the map's boss. The number of trash packs removed in this way should reflect how long a competent player with a balanced build would take to perform both the task of clearing the trash and killing the boss with a design goal of ensuring the boss kill was very slightly more profitable on a second-by-second basis than the trash clearing. Then, because no one likes empty space, reduce the map size until the trash is back at the intended density. This leaves us with trim, balanced map experience that compensates time invested on all fronts. Dernière édition par GoldRidley#6244, le 9 août 2017 à 13:58:34
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" Well the thing is, you don't have to change overall rewards. You could shift them. Remove drops from trash mobs add them to bosses. In the most ideal circumstance a player would always drop the same amount of items per minute spend, regardless if he fights trash or bosses, but right now that is hardly the case and the issue is that the higher your dps the more rewarding bosses are (because you waste a lot of that dps on trash and your loot per minute is limited by walking). " The issue is that those map drops of bosses don't matter. once you are at a T15 map a map drop from a blue is as good as from the boss, because there are no T17 maps. You just don't need the map drop from the boss for infinite sustain. Overall map drops from bosses would only be a decent rewards if maps would be rarer, but that would again punish weaker builds that cannot do all maps. So bosses could simply drop a bit more, and it isn't even dropping a lot of this is feeling. Why can't we get a cool chest to open when we kill a boss, something like the ones behind Izaro. Actual rewards are often far less important than excitement and honestly I'm not that excited about killing a map boss it just happens and I think with some cool chests to open this would be an option, even if those chests wouldn't make the boss kill worthwhile, opening a chest is more interesting exspecially if you can randomly get some other things like a bunch of divination cards or some maps, just something like this. And to compensate trash mobs could lose some of their insane dropping power. |
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I also think the hp should be reduced it is hard enough with 1x hp on a fair few bosses unless you have super decent gear or a super good build and can just melt stuff in seconds :|
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