Please bring map boss hp down

The issue with the boss HP was already a known issue from the beta. Of course, like most beta issues that got brought up... It fell upon deaf ears.

It's quite simple, really; while no, most of us "higher-end" players will not have issues with survival/sustain, (once you amass enough of a combination of game knowledge and/or gear, everything becomes trivial and skill-less) the HP increase DOES add a noticeable number of seconds to the time we have to hold down the RMB until they die.

Problem is... Now the boss accounts for a sizable fraction (I'm noticing as much as 25-35%) of the time it takes to clear an entire map. Given that a boss drops no loot worth mentioning, and provides about as much EXP as a single pack of trash mobs that die in one click, this means it's a waste of time: bothering with the boss means that our EXP/hr, which is the only real function to aim for in mapping, suffers.

GGG claimed they wanted to "make map bosses transition more smoothly towards guardians," but there's two problems there: concept, and execution.

• Concept
  No one runs Guardian maps for the EXP; because of how long the boss fights are, you'd get faster EXP/hr running yellow maps, to say nothing of stuff like Gorge/Plateau/Shaped Strand/Shaped Atoll/Shaped Underground River/Shaped Shapes. We run guardians because we want Shaper fragments. (also, to a lesser degree, their endemic items) The penalty to our EXP/hr is acceptable because we get something in return. Map bosses do no such thing. So GGG is just asking players to take an EXP/hr hit for... The goodness in our own hearts? I dunno.
  
  
• Execution
  GGG claimed they wanted a more smooth transition up to Guardians... Except their solution was to basically double (give or take) ALL map bosses? This still leaves us with the LOWEST guardians (e.g, Chimera) a whopping 230% MORE HP over the 3-way tie between Ambrius/Infernal King/Cursed King. (9,537,659 HP vs. 2,886,311) Meanwhile, at the bottom end, you STILL have that bump in HP, which means a disconnect THERE. GGG basically managed to fail to fix the problem they claimed to want to fix, while creating an almost identical one elsewhere.
  

Now, I DO have faith in GGG that they could (eventually) come to a good solution. In spite of all the mistakes they made with 3.0.0, there WAS one part that impressed me thoroughly, being their labyrinth reworks. It's now actually FUN and REWARDING. Too bad maps no longer are that way.

"

sidtherat a écrit :

we are in 3.0 now

Tell me, are you actually capable of playing the game yourself? I'm not talking skill, I'm talking an actual physical capability to log in to the game and actually make new characters and play them through. As all I've seen you do for months now is just relish in schadenfreude stemming from GGG's flailing balance fixes that invariably wind up being just enforced meta shifts.

It's like you're exactly on the same page as GGG's balance team: minimal up-to-date experience, but an assumption of full relevance, while you bandy about credentials of dubious relevance. (such as that you bought the third-smallest supporter pack in the open beta)

And no, GGG did NOT ramp up boss HP to "make players think about sustain." All they were thinking about was "let's slow down these clears." It was, of course, a miserable failure, since the result was "boss skip meta;" though, as you might not have been aware, this meta was ALREADY sort of a thing (and has been to varying degrees since 2.0.0) but this reinforced it extra-hard.

tl;dr: are you capable of doing anything other than going around and responding to complaints with a wordier equivalent of shouting "Git gud"?

so what is your problem?

you spew some innuendos and baseless assssumptions (typo on purpose) and you think youve 'won'? man, get a grip, noone else will

as for me playing:

just dropped. what was your point again?

"

ACGIFT a écrit :

No one runs Guardian maps for the EXP; because of how long the boss fights are

It does not look like you have actual experience with the guardians.

Why don't people run those maps for xp ?
Because those maps are ridiculously small.
The guardiands ARE the point of running those maps.



Hopefully, GGG will do something to slow down the game outside of boss fights in the future.
They could then slightly buff droprtes I guess, even though ... they are already pretty freaking good.

"

sidtherat a écrit :

so what is your problem?

you spew some innuendos and baseless assssumptions (typo on purpose) and you think youve 'won'? man, get a grip, noone else will

as for me playing:

just dropped. what was your point again?

Those aren't fucking good.

"

Baron01 a écrit :

My worry is that increased HP was not balanced by appropriate reduction in offensive ability of these bosses. More HP mean more time it takes to kill a boss, which in turn means player is longer exposed to deadly onslaught some bosses can dish out.

I see same problem. Previously most of the deadly bosses was OK, because you can kill them quickly. Now they have same damage but have much more life. It's make them more dangerous not because they really hard, but because you must spend more time to kill them and if you have not enough life/flask sustain - you are in trouble now.

This change are not affected strong builds. This change strike hard medicore and/or fun builds. And does not give anything in return.

"

Grimbold a écrit :

Noone is forcing you to do the bosses more then once for the map bonus.

Do you see challenges for this league?

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sidtherat a écrit :

just dropped. what was your point again?

So... You have a couple of trash 3.0.0 items, so that justifies you as a "intensive serious player"?

Though, I_NO beat me to the reply. Those things were pretty much worthless in the Beta, and they'll reach that value soon enough on Standard, and even Harbinger.

"

Fruz a écrit :

Why don't people run those maps for xp ?
Because those maps are ridiculously small.

I wouldn't say RIDICULOUSLY, but yeah, they wind up having maybe half to two-thirds as many mobs as a T15 map. On its own, it's not absolutely fatal (after all, they're all pretty linear) but I was putting the main emphasis on the boss fight... And yes, numerically, it's that fight that dings your EXP/hr the most, NOT the reduced number of monster packs.

After all, it's kinda the whole question being discussed here. (this thread wasn't about mob pack counts, after all)

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I_NO a écrit :

"

sidtherat a écrit :

so what is your problem?

you spew some innuendos and baseless assssumptions (typo on purpose) and you think youve 'won'? man, get a grip, noone else will

as for me playing:

just dropped. what was your point again?

Those aren't fucking good.

This is the same guy who said 4.6k hp was fine to map in red maps and then proceeds to turn around and completely contradict himself when arguing with someone else in another thread and said that you need 6k+ hp because of things like Beyond Fire Surge mobs. I don't think anyone even takes him seriously anymore.

SUCH GOOD LOOT AM I RIGHT



BYAAAA



Oh give me a fucking break

This is the best one personally brought a friend here and he couldn't do shit cuz he was scared of the boss so this took like 9 years

way to move the goalpost - you have asked if i play the game at all (physically play the game) - i show you that i do (by linking 3.0 items, not linking valuable items.. way to miss the point). now you want me to be a 'serious player'.. if i show you the list of chars youll move the goalpost again.


bosses hp has increased, so should mob health do. screen wide clears are nice self esteem boosts for the needy but they are unsustainable. it creates expectation creep (more loot! we demand more loot, but for mee onlyyy! otherwise the inflation will make it worthelss so we need moooore of it still!), removes any form of challenge (oh, i can die now) and in long term turns a game into a clicker passtime noone respects

truth is that clearing blood aqueduct and T10 maps is the same. the only difference is the boss fight itself. players who mastered the art of spending nothing on defences are hurt with these changes the most and will complain the most

you can moan and cry but this change is most likely staying in and is a sign of further nerfs to clear speed meta.

oh, and as you are so pleasant to deal with, do not bother responding, im not going to see your answer

"

I_NO a écrit :

Spoiler

SUCH GOOD LOOT AM I RIGHT



BYAAAA



Oh give me a fucking break

This is the best one personally brought a friend here and he couldn't do shit cuz he was scared of the boss so this took like 9 years

Maybe the game knows your playing snoozefest BV and is rewarding accordingly :^)?

Peace,

-Boem-