Why all the clear speed meta hate?

I'm not a top tier player.

Rephrasing this in a non-condescending and/or patronizing way.

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Aetherium a écrit :

Did you know that the record for a shaped strand is 15 seconds? Also most competitive players achieve better than 1 minute clear time.

Wow, that's pretty crazy! A bit extreme though, right? And doesn't it kind of reinforce the point I was making about most defenses becoming almost vestigal? Clear speed meta is one of the major reasons that VP became the only relevant defense.

There are things to defend even if you're clearing in <1min. Your mind won't even have time to react to them until the outcome is already decided. It's like shrodinger's box, you're both dead and you aren't, but you never get to observe which becomes true until you pop the map.

Is this good, does it encourage thematic gameplay? Is it intuitive? There's definitely an "it's fun, leave it and do whatever you want" crowd and I understand that, but you can't reconcile that to the "it's not fun, make sane gameplay competitive" crowd.

So this becomes a player retention issue on both ends. It's really, really hard to deal with from a developer's perspective. Chris has gone to a lot of effort to prep both crowds for letdown.

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StDrakeX a écrit :

You should be clearing Shaped Strands in under a minute or so OR clearing them in roughly 5ish minutes if actually know what you're doing this League. Anything in between or longer than 5 minutes, then you aren't in the "meta" 👌

lol what if i made a meta build but just don't go full speed it's not a meta build anymore? x'D

Because its brain dead mindless playing. Only skill left in this game is big 6 bosses and even thats unskilled with VP ES where you can face tank.

Usually I fall asleep while playing after like 5 maps and quit.

We need Monster power, enraged rares with crazy abilities (if you played d3 original inferno you know what I mean) etc. So actual fights occur which require timing dodging etc like the Big 6 Boss fights.

But no we gone other way. Our DPS is at least 10x what it was in 1.0. Monster have similar life. It's a complete joke.

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

Because its brain dead mindless playing. Only skill left in this game is big 6 bosses and even thats unskilled with VP ES where you can face tank.

Usually I fall asleep while playing after like 5 maps and quit.

How would you respond to the original poster's counterargument: Make weaker builds, then?

Gimping yourself on purpose isn't even an argument.

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adghar a écrit :

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

Because its brain dead mindless playing. Only skill left in this game is big 6 bosses and even thats unskilled with VP ES where you can face tank.

Usually I fall asleep while playing after like 5 maps and quit.

How would you respond to the original poster's counterargument: Make weaker builds, then?

In perandus I was doing end game (to 15 maps) with a 3L made a thread about it.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1650182/page/1

I have, but thats not point of game like this. It's building to be the best you can be not self nerf. And even then that does not address the great disparity between whites/rare vs bosses which are miles apart. Whites and rares are essentially mannequins now while bosses have interesting abilities and big HP where you need to be powerful.

I have a better Idea just give us MP. Let the people play MP1 who want to one shot everything. I'll play MP10 with 5 min rare fights where they do crazy shit like enrage reflect ground effects etc. Kinda like original prenerf Invasion with a lot more HP

And then we can both build 6L OP builds and be happy.

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

I have a better Idea just give us MP. Let the people play MP1 who want to one shot everything. I'll play MP10 with 5 min rare fights where they do crazy shit like enrage reflect ground effects etc. Kinda like original prenerf Invasion with a lot more HP

And then we can both build 6L OP builds and be happy.

That was actually a big ask back in cb when you got the party quantity bonus throughout the whole zone not just when people were close, group farming fellshrine with everyone spread out was a thing. People wanted to get the same bonuses but without group.

Wouldn't solve anything though, people would continue to drown the forum in whine about it forcing them to play OP meta builds like pretty much everything else ever added to the game.

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adghar a écrit :

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Kasapnica a écrit :

I personally don't like to hold the right click and explode screen after screen. You don't care what you fight,you don't care what are the monster types.

I think this is where the heart of the argument lies.

One party sees this concept, understands it, and says "but why don't you mind your own business and make slow builds and let us enjoy the fun?

Another party sees this concept, understands it, and says "GGG, why do you balance content around the lawnmower meta?"

You you cant please everyone with a one size fits all approach. Thats the whole problem and why these stupid internet arguments even come up. If you had options they would not. D3 figured that out, finally after like 1 year of fail. Went from almost everyone leaving their game because they couldnt even get past act 1 inferno to super easy with care bear patches 1.3 and 1.4 then the people who actually stuck around were pissed off how easy it got. Finally to MP and Torment so users could select what works for them and they made more people happy.

Thats why games have difficulty settings.

Along those lines is the whole way to play. Trade or SSF or SF (mening you can group but not trade) GGG is finally buying a clue that options are good and gave us SSF. But not far enough need SF too. Anyway more people are happy now because option.

Finally whole issue of death penalty. GGGs stubbornness has chased tons away because that option is not there.

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adghar a écrit :

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

Because its brain dead mindless playing. Only skill left in this game is big 6 bosses and even thats unskilled with VP ES where you can face tank.

Usually I fall asleep while playing after like 5 maps and quit.

How would you respond to the original poster's counterargument: Make weaker builds, then?

Or maybe dont level past 70, or use white weapon, or tied one hand behind my back and close one eye with eyepatch....
That's just silly. Game should provide challenge for players, "artifitical" challenge like "make weaker builds" is beyonf stupid in competive online game with trading!

That's how you play PoE in 2017:

Character's size reprezents his power compared to trash enemies, feet position and blood under it represents "oneshot enemies" meta, etc.
This single screenshot grotesquely shows what PoE is about ATM.

Why all the clear speed meta hate?

Because something different need to be hated all weeks.

/irony off

Simply because at some point only a few skills are allowing to go for clearspeed, with a bit of investement to a decent budget.
Others tend to be shit that's the most polite i can do regarding situation, except with an incredible amount of currencies and they will still be left behind others.
They are fun, you can play with them, as it's mentioned often they are also viable. Viable is not enough, that's it.
If all skills were able to achieve a kinda similar clearspeed with the same effort it would be fun. Right now it's just horribly bad ( still better than past year ).

Soo i kinda don't hate that clearspeed exist, what i hate is the GAP.

Second problem but it will never be adressed by GGG, is clearspeed impact is also feeling playing a firework simulation ( hi vaal fireball ). But that's another story, when we will be all blind because of PoE i guess they will reduce skills effects, gears effect, grounds effect, gem effect, monster effects, Fishing effects, McDonald effects, terrain effects, water effects, etc ... For god sake i havn't seen a single monster since ages ! Instead i'm seeing a lot of flashlights ! That's a FANTASTIC DESIGN.

pfiiiuu