Lets talk armor (the stat)

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

And this is what we call a balanced build these days...

It has more or less always been like this since open beta.

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

And this is what we call a balanced build these days...

I remember when it was a thing to play lategame 3k DpS chain/GMP lightning arrow with trees similar to this:
click me
(skilltree has changed a lot since then, but you get the idea)

The meme "Path of Life Nodes" is about as old as the game itself.

But where is the diversity then?

If you play a life build, you take more than half of your skill points in survival aspects just to get by towards difficult >tier 13 maps.

If your piloting skills are up to it, you could make do with only a 5K HP buffer until then (believe me, I know by having played a more 50% defences, 50% damage oriented approach regarding nodes for a while), but if you want to reach higher, you need the larger buffer as the huge gap between ES and life requires higher damage to take out the substantial higher EHP pool/hit that ES provides.

If I go ES, I could scale my build post 10K, grab various defences (Fortify and up to 4-5 End Charges are not out of reach for an ES build, not to mention flasks), and still gun for Vaal Pact and Ghost Reaver without downsides.

If we go life, 5K HP feels squishy, even with 7 End Charges, 20K armour, >50% Block and Fortify, while post tier 14 on difficult maps, I'm sure that even 6.6K HP will feel squishy with 8 End Charges, 15K armour, 40% Evasion and Fortify so they'll have to address the gap by either increasing HP values for Strength/% nodes or by either toning down a bit ES scaling, nerf the ES + VP interaction and tone down the rampant damage scaling of monsters...

And yes, I want them to balance all the broken items/skills/mechanics or interactions so we have a leveled playing field, and "melee" as in a 16 radius should have it's own niche, it should do something great to feel worthwhile...

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

But where is the diversity then?

GGG think they gave players diversity, but in fact, life builds arent really diverse, because too much points should be put into life nodes. ES builds are more diverse cause they spend less nodes for ES, but still, all ES build pick the same several ES nodes/clusters in Witch area and down to scion's Foresight, because they're just too good.

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

And yes, I want them to balance all the broken items/skills/mechanics or interactions so we have a leveled playing field, and "melee" as in a 16 radius should have it's own niche, it should do something great to feel worthwhile...

I also want that, but it seems, GGG want to make PoE a oneshot-fest (where you oneshot everything and move at cosmic speeds), and they want you to "watch TV while playing" (they said that in interview) while farming content...
I dont think that game, that can be played while watching TV, can be interestng. If i'd want to watch TV, i will watch it and quite that boring game. And i want to play game, i want it to be interesting enough to not allow me distract on any other things.

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MortalKombat3 a écrit :

ES builds are more diverse cause they spend less nodes for ES, but still, all ES build pick the same several ES nodes/clusters in Witch area and down to scion's Foresight, because they're just too good.

it is more because these are pretty much the only ES nodes there are. ES player can pick pretty much every 'good' cluster in 40-50 points total. this + INT scaling allows for easy 8K plus ES buffer



as for the AR - iv done some experiments with my tree and items and 20K is not 'easy' no matter how one looks at it. it REQUIRES a shield. due to 'go fast meta + filters' people pretty much do not pick shields up so there are total 5 (FIVE) 1000 AR+ AR/EV hybrid shields available in Legacy (the league seems pretty dead btw)

with shield i can get to 20K but it is NOT easy. it requires picking up Juggernaut (60% AR + double chest) and few nodes one wouldnt pick otherwise. 10K is relatively 'easy' to get, but 20K requires effort, funnels player into one type of gear-set AND does not bring much value in the long run

my juggernaut uses pure EV shield because +6000 EV gives me FAR more than jump from 10K AR to 15K AR

in my experiments ive upgraded my gear with my go-to setup: pure AR gloves and boots got replaced with AR/EV hybrids. gained 500 AR and 1500 EV.


as for the comparison to ES and 'effort' required for gearing

got this for 30c..

i know it is a budget, no resist entry-level chest. but this is more than enough to map safely esp with VP+GR

http://poe.trade/search/ukorasinohokeh


so for life the chest costs 1 or 2 chaos.



I think my 2h juggernaut takes cloth and chain for 2 nodes and soul of steel for 3 nodes, has 22k armour and 12k evasion without a shield. Theyre on the path, 5 nodes to get em, it takes me 5 nodes to get essence surge if I go for a recharge ci build, takes me 2 or 3 nodes to get ghost reaver so I can leech, I dunno that its asking a lot tbh.

I just don't see why they can't institute a small, secondary scaling defense baked into Armor as well.

Specifically, you look at many other games with armor, they use a scaling % armor, not additive like how GGG does % reductions; so if 1000 armor reduces damage taken by 1%, then 10000 armor wouldn't reduce it by 10%-- it would reduce it by 100*.99).99).99).99).99).99).99).99).99).99), so its a static "1% less taken) per each amount, multiplicative addition rather than additive. Armor stacking can never get out of hand in those games because each amount scales properly so each amount is the same effect on your EH. at the same its effect is the same against small hits as against big hits, making it valuable no matter what.


get rid of Granite flasks so that armor comes solely from Gear and Armor numbers can't get out of hand, and bake in, as a secondary effect into armor, an additional DR to physical where each 100 armor reduces the damage taken by an additional (scaling) .1%.
This way it still has a niche against smaller hits, but this % reduction would also give some cushioning against the bigger hits.

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Snorkle_uk a écrit :

http://poe.trade/search/ukorasinohokeh


so for life the chest costs 1 or 2 chaos.



I think my 2h juggernaut takes cloth and chain for 2 nodes and soul of steel for 3 nodes, has 22k armour and 12k evasion without a shield. Theyre on the path, 5 nodes to get em, it takes me 5 nodes to get essence surge if I go for a recharge ci build, takes me 2 or 3 nodes to get ghost reaver so I can leech, I dunno that its asking a lot tbh.

Neah, more like 25/30 Chaos for a 5L. Keep the comparison fair.

Of course there are solutions, but due to the focus on elemental damage, and low mitigation options regarding it, life builds that get hit - and even heavily invested Evasion + Dodge will get hit at a moment - are closer to the threshold that rampant ES scaling as "blue life" requested the same rampant damage scaling of monsters towards "one shot" damage levels.

And due to the CI existence, any focus on chaos as an viable damage source is rendered nill.

No one complains that life should equal ES, but great life builds should have a chance to shine just as ES builds do, so if that means adding more "untankable" fair hits, no matter your EHP pool, I'm all in...

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sidtherat a écrit :

it is more because these are pretty much the only ES nodes there are. ES player can pick pretty much every 'good' cluster in 40-50 points total. this + INT scaling allows for easy 8K plus ES buffer



as for the AR - iv done some experiments with my tree and items and 20K is not 'easy' no matter how one looks at it. it REQUIRES a shield. due to 'go fast meta + filters' people pretty much do not pick shields up so there are total 5 (FIVE) 1000 AR+ AR/EV hybrid shields available in Legacy (the league seems pretty dead btw)

with shield i can get to 20K but it is NOT easy. it requires picking up Juggernaut (60% AR + double chest) and few nodes one wouldnt pick otherwise. 10K is relatively 'easy' to get, but 20K requires effort, funnels player into one type of gear-set AND does not bring much value in the long run

my juggernaut uses pure EV shield because +6000 EV gives me FAR more than jump from 10K AR to 15K AR

in my experiments ive upgraded my gear with my go-to setup: pure AR gloves and boots got replaced with AR/EV hybrids. gained 500 AR and 1500 EV.


as for the comparison to ES and 'effort' required for gearing

got this for 30c..

i know it is a budget, no resist entry-level chest. but this is more than enough to map safely esp with VP+GR

With a build similar to my Juggernaut, all you'd have to do to get to 20K armour would be to replace the gloves, boots and helmet with higher armour valour counterparts, and in the worst case path towards Soul of Steel.

It might not be very easy, but it is no rocket science.

tryng to sell this item.
Noone wants.
Even Energy From Within jewel costs more.
So what i think.
DONT NEVER EVER pick up armor based items.
Just pick up ES based items. Otherwise you waste time.

150 chaos for a chest with a mastercrafted life roll on it ?
With 4 sockets on it ?
Of course it's not going to sell well .....
( I know, it's more like +76 life at the end, but still )