OH OH! I've hit the PoE endgame XP grind mountain and everything is boring

Game ends when you dont have any of 3 things:
- character development by leveling (some games do it by infinite levels)
- progression by gearing (never found RPG that have any gearing progression after you reach certain items/levels - no game ever made system to accomodate infinite gear progression of it outside of ultra-giga-super-duper luck rolls)
- rewarding gameplay with fun moments (mostly reserved for non-RPG high player skill oriented games)


When I read the OP post I am forced to agree to him.
POE doesnt have anything from those 3 points I wrote above.
Character development by leveling is caped at 100, where it turn to almost impossible for 90+ level for casual player, so its not longer viable thing to make people stay in the game.
Ascendancy will create wave of new players because of giving NEW leveling progression (ascendancy class), but it will probably wanish after few months (mark my words).
Gearing diminish quickly to the point where you hit brickwall and its almost impossible to progress further.
Rewarding gameplay is nonexistant here, this is not high player skill game where you can throw nade that bounce of wall, fly into a chopper and blow it up while you hijack a tank. You wont see cool GIF's or movies made out of POE gameplay like you do with for example FPS games.

So there is nothing to keep players (except for fanatics who blidnly fallow the game) in this game for long time.

I value GGG as developers, they made a great game, they fleshed out unique and cool systems that no other game have. I believe that maybe in future they will think out of some cool endgame system.
I would suggest them to make some infinite gear progression in the game, because no other game I am aware of have such system. It would make GGG stand out even more where giving players a goal to pursue.

The goal of game is to never reach the goal yet progress all the time.


To wrap it up I will use qoute of one of my favorite philosophers:

“You do not play a sonata in order to reach the final chord, and if the meanings of things were simply in ends, composers would write nothing but finales.”
― Alan W. Watts

"

herflik a écrit :

Game ends when you dont have any of 3 things:
- character development by leveling (some games do it by infinite levels)
- progression by gearing (never found RPG that have any gearing progression after you reach certain items/levels - no game ever made system to accomodate infinite gear progression of it outside of ultra-giga-super-duper luck rolls)
- rewarding gameplay with fun moments (mostly reserved for non-RPG high player skill oriented games)


When I read the OP post I am forced to agree to him.
POE doesnt have anything from those 3 points I wrote above.
Character development by leveling is caped at 100, where it turn to almost impossible for 90+ level for casual player, so its not longer viable thing to make people stay in the game.
Ascendancy will create wave of new players because of giving NEW leveling progression (ascendancy class), but it will probably wanish after few months (mark my words).
Gearing diminish quickly to the point where you hit brickwall and its almost impossible to progress further.
Rewarding gameplay is nonexistant here, this is not high player skill game where you can throw nade that bounce of wall, fly into a chopper and blow it up while you hijack a tank. You wont see cool GIF's or movies made out of POE gameplay like you do with for example FPS games.

So there is nothing to keep players (except for fanatics who blidnly fallow the game) in this game for long time.

I value GGG as developers, they made a great game, they fleshed out unique and cool systems that no other game have. I believe that maybe in future they will think out of some cool endgame system.
I would suggest them to make some infinite gear progression in the game, because no other game I am aware of have such system. It would make GGG stand out even more where giving players a goal to pursue.

The goal of game is to never reach the goal yet progress all the time.


To wrap it up I will use qoute of one of my favorite philosophers:

“You do not play a sonata in order to reach the final chord, and if the meanings of things were simply in ends, composers would write nothing but finales.”
― Alan W. Watts

Good post. I agree with this post but what about challenge as #4 which I like most. I hate running 9-10 maps over and over - they are completely trivial with any build guide but thats where you stay 99% of your time at end game. Boring. What I have done in past is just buy mortal sets and higher maps for some harder content but it shouldn't be that way notwithstanding some builds even trivialize that as infrequent as you see it.

"

herflik a écrit :

Game ends when you dont have any of 3 things:
- character development by leveling (some games do it by infinite levels)
- progression by gearing (never found RPG that have any gearing progression after you reach certain items/levels - no game ever made system to accomodate infinite gear progression of it outside of ultra-giga-super-duper luck rolls)
- rewarding gameplay with fun moments (mostly reserved for non-RPG high player skill oriented games)


When I read the OP post I am forced to agree to him.
POE doesnt have anything from those 3 points I wrote above.
Character development by leveling is caped at 100, where it turn to almost impossible for 90+ level for casual player, so its not longer viable thing to make people stay in the game.
Ascendancy will create wave of new players because of giving NEW leveling progression (ascendancy class), but it will probably wanish after few months (mark my words).

Well-said.

"

herflik a écrit :

Game ends when you dont have any of 3 things:
- character development by leveling (some games do it by infinite levels)
- progression by gearing (never found RPG that have any gearing progression after you reach certain items/levels - no game ever made system to accomodate infinite gear progression of it outside of ultra-giga-super-duper luck rolls)
- rewarding gameplay with fun moments (mostly reserved for non-RPG high player skill oriented games)


When I read the OP post I am forced to agree to him.
POE doesnt have anything from those 3 points I wrote above.
Character development by leveling is caped at 100, where it turn to almost impossible for 90+ level for casual player, so its not longer viable thing to make people stay in the game.
Ascendancy will create wave of new players because of giving NEW leveling progression (ascendancy class), but it will probably wanish after few months (mark my words).
Gearing diminish quickly to the point where you hit brickwall and its almost impossible to progress further.
Rewarding gameplay is nonexistant here, this is not high player skill game where you can throw nade that bounce of wall, fly into a chopper and blow it up while you hijack a tank. You wont see cool GIF's or movies made out of POE gameplay like you do with for example FPS games.

So there is nothing to keep players (except for fanatics who blidnly fallow the game) in this game for long time.

I value GGG as developers, they made a great game, they fleshed out unique and cool systems that no other game have. I believe that maybe in future they will think out of some cool endgame system.
I would suggest them to make some infinite gear progression in the game, because no other game I am aware of have such system. It would make GGG stand out even more where giving players a goal to pursue.

The goal of game is to never reach the goal yet progress all the time.


To wrap it up I will use qoute of one of my favorite philosophers:

“You do not play a sonata in order to reach the final chord, and if the meanings of things were simply in ends, composers would write nothing but finales.”
― Alan W. Watts

+1. Me and a few others have mentioned these things quite a few times.

It's a game that has HUGE POTENTIAL, yet poor progress.

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DoubleU a écrit :

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StDrakeX a écrit :

Maybe you are never meant to hit 100, something to think about.

This ^ - why is 100 such a big friggin' deal?

 Ok, I'll bite. Tell me then, GGG makes their arpg have a max level of 100, yet actively discourages us from achieving it. Hmmm... I understand the view of PoE is from the opposite side of the looking glass from the devs viewpoint compared to the players viewpoint. There are easily 101 technical considerations (probably more) that GGG must take into consideration every time a game change or addition is make that I, as a simple middle of the PoE path player, never need be concerned about. But when I've worked on dozens of builds (and discarded dozens of builds), have played all the standard temp leagues (HC is too stressful for me when one strike and your out is the norm), have run a few races (I'll never ever finish in the top 10 of any solo race so the desire isn't there for racing), I only complete a few of the challenges, never trade and won't ever until a better async trade system is implemented, and hate the high RNG nature of gambling crafting. That only leaves the long tedious mountain climb to the level 100 peak. If that is only available through map run after map run and nothing else is available to grind xp then that takes level 100 away from me too. The proverbial "game over" feeling sets in.

 It really shouldn't be a "damn, I have to play PoE every free hour of my waking life to generate enough xp to get a level 100 build." The crazy no-lifers (GGG will probably censor this) that min/max builds and crazy play (as if they're on Jolt cola 100% of the time) have made it necessary for GGG to set the grind time to the extremes just to slow them down. If I remember correctly it would take just over a month for the top xp grinders to push a build to 100. This was before GGG doubled down on xp needed to get from 99 to 100 (among other changes). Ok, so be it. I don't expect or even desire at this point that the amount of xp needed to reach level 100 be lowered. All I ask/want if for GGG to provide us with more than map grinding as the only single way that xp can be generated. And it a big NO!, Dry Lake runs are a waste of time on my level 86 exile (it's only level 67) so zone running for xp is worthless. I'd be much happier if I had an Endless Dungeon where depth level = 1/10 a tier level and set dungeon level 1 = zone level 68 difficulty so dungeon level 151 is equivalent to a tier 15 map in terms of content difficulty with the same xp generated per kill as that tier. Then the super elites that always clamor for "more harder please" can drill down to their hearts content with uber dungeon monsters. With a more or less randomly generated map structure to the dungeons that go down forever then at least this is a 2nd way to generate good xp per hour. We could alternate between map running and dungeon running and not be stuck in a map only endgame and burn out from map repetition and boredom.

 What the added methods are for generating endgame leveling xp isn't as important (don't just focus on "I hate that idea") as the fact that GGG seriously needs to add alternative methods for us to generate endgame leveling xp. The map running grind enthusiasm is long gone (and so have probably millions who quit over boredom). Wow, millions came to try PoE in the wake of the D3 mess and PoE looked like the answer to our D3 woes. But 3 plus years later and PoE is not any better in the endgame (possibly worse with low drops of the higher tier maps) and map running is still the only endgame option for grinding xp.

Lol, I see everyone has there own end game in poe...

For me poe has no end game really, its a very long journey.

I Theory craft for days, start a char while always thinking and actively upgrading my build until i reach lvl 90, after that I play while constantly improving my character, farming items or trading, getting more op stuff for my given character.

Only on HC, it gives more limitations on what I can do on the tree, so its harder and it takes me more effort to create a good build, and a build that I can enjoy at the same time. This process can take me 1 - 2 months on single char.

When Im done, I start another char, with new idea on what I want to do. Many of them die yes, (then I delete them, becaouse I never was, and never will be playing standard) and its not easy, but I enjoy that one char after all that effort that actually works well and its fun to farm with.

That is my poe journey.


!The harder the game is, the more fun it is to theory craft and create an awesome character!


More challenge more fun

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

POE's end game is terrible always has been

yep.

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Hlifhildr a écrit :

It really does feel like you're "not meant to hit 100" like one poster said, but my question is: why?

It's just the type of player and mindset OP describes is not one that typically will hit 100

Its not about hiting 100 level.
I have nothing against never reaching max level at all in any game...BUT you need to make some sort of progression for players anyway.

Tons of people play games to see how their character develop, progress and grow. Thats why games like cookie clicker and alike have such high popularity. All those games do is infinite progression where you watch numbers grow. People like that, people like watching numbers grow, slower or faster, doesnt matter as long as it constant.

In those games nobody reach max level, because the max level is so high (cookie clicker for example bug out after some gigantic number) that its impossible to reach - similarity to POE.

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herflik a écrit :

Its not about hiting 100 level.
I have nothing against never reaching max level at all in any game...BUT you need to make some sort of progression for players anyway.

Tons of people play games to see how their character develop, progress and grow. Thats why games like cookie clicker and alike have such high popularity. All those games do is infinite progression where you watch numbers grow. People like that, people like watching numbers grow, slower or faster, doesnt matter as long as it constant.

In those games nobody reach max level, because the max level is so high (cookie clicker for example bug out after some gigantic number) that its impossible to reach - similarity to POE.

I think the problem isn't that Lv100 in PoE is impossible.

Lv100 in PoE is actually very easy if your party has a healthy pool of access to T14/15 maps and you might make a fortune while doing it assuming your party doesn't suck major donkey balls.

The problem is very very rarely does anyone playing PoE "healthily" has that kind of high level map pools.

Problem is like people said before accessibility.

Just like 99.999% of the PoE players will never see a Mirror drop for the rest of their life or until PoE die out... a few are sitting on stacks of mirrors.