The real problem of XP LOSS.

And another important point. If you define the goal of the game as LVL 100, it means that you are driven by an element of competitiveness. That is, you want to become better than others (and that's okay, it's like sports and competitions). The problem is something else. You want to become better than others without improving your skills. But that's absurd. It doesn't happen that way. That's why you're asking to change the rules of the game.

First of all, you make it competetive by looking at it this way. And thats also the reason for the penalty, if they are not just petty and want to force a certain playstyle with their games.
What is the purpose of the last 5-10 skillpoints, if they are totally obsolete at the point you eventually reach lv100? And thats true in 100% of all cases. Otherwhise you did something wrong.
But I could have played the gamne with them and have some fun.
The game treats you like a narcissist. Can be a fun dude. But not worth to hang around for too long.

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Ярри#5910 a écrit :

And another important point. If you define the goal of the game as LVL 100, it means that you are driven by an element of competitiveness. That is, you want to become better than others (and that's okay, it's like sports and competitions). The problem is something else. You want to become better than others without improving your skills. But that's absurd. It doesn't happen that way. That's why you're asking to change the rules of the game.

Nobody is talking about lvl100. People just don't like losing their progress, its very simple.

And no, not everyone is "competitive" when they wanna get to max level in an rpg. As far as I'm concerned this is a singleplayer game with multiplayer elements. I don't care about the ladder, I don't care who kills what bosses first, I don't care who gets lvl100 first. None of it. Not everyone is some e-sports player who wants to compete with everyone. People just wanna have fun in a game.

And lvl100 is a given in any rpg after enough time investment anyway like what kind of game has content yet doesn't let its player reach it lmao that's ridiculous, its something that anyone should be able to reach after enough grinding. The problem is the game steals your time investment away from you each time you die. This is objectively bad game design. PoE 2 will get some kind of OP exp strat like 5-way legion rotas eventually anyway, then everyone will just pay X amount of divines for carries till they reach their desired level, completely negating and walking around the exp penalty. As they should, I'm happy to ignore and bypass this bad game design any time I can.


It's not fun to have hours of your exp deleted. The game can remain the same and be enjoyed by everyone, if they just add options for everyone. Make exp loss be a slider or toggle. Then you can still play with it on, and others can disable it. It wouldn't affect you one bit how someone else plays the game. 99% of players don't care about "competitiveness" in a basically singleplayer arpg. The "rules of the game" wouldn't change for you at all, they would simply allow more players to enjoy the game.

So yeah, until they decide to fix exp loss in this game, they will keep losing players. And some people will never come back unless that change is made. Because losing so many hours of progress in any game is not fun.

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kosmo_blacksmith#5449 a écrit :

First of all, you make it competetive by looking at it this way. And thats also the reason for the penalty, if they are not just petty and want to force a certain playstyle with their games.
What is the purpose of the last 5-10 skillpoints, if they are totally obsolete at the point you eventually reach lv100? And thats true in 100% of all cases. Otherwhise you did something wrong.
But I could have played the gamne with them and have some fun.
The game treats you like a narcicisst. Can be a fun dude. But not worth to hang around for too long.

Exactly, whats the point of even having lvl100 if the game is gonna gatekeep it with exp loss and random oneshots anyway? Why even have it, why not just make max lvl be 90 then and put those 10 points behind story quests then call it a day. Its so senseless.

If you are near level 100, monsters take more damage becouse the distance between cap of monsters and your character increases. Also you make more damage to them.

So that is a good reason why wanna leveling until reaching 100.

For me reasons to die with unexpected death or by ground effects that can't recognize if it is friendly fire or not, is more important than xp loss. Basically it makes me wanna quiting game. Becouse it is rediculus not knowing the reason of death. How you supposed to strengthen your char if not knowing what's wrong with defences??

Common the game has some serious issues guys. Until fixing then all you cant punishing people with 10% xp loss. 3% will be enough to keep the essentials mechanism vital.

Toforto#2372



There are many casual games in the world where EVERYONE can reach their peak if they spend a lot of time playing. There are other games that are more complex, in which you need to know the mechanics of this game, understand, learn from your mistakes, etc. ... You just need to accept the simple fact that this game belongs to the second category.

I often play in random and see people die from one or two hits of white mobs, at 85-90 lvl. But I also see others, those who almost never die. What does this mean? That it is often POSSIBLE not to die. But why are you dying?

Yes, the game is not perfect, but as I see it, they leave it not because of loss of experience, but because of boredom.

Make it more casual, as you suggest, = make it even more boring and insipid. I probably wouldn't have played in such a farm, and I'm probably not the only one. I was attracted to this game mainly by two aspects: 1 - graphics, 2 - hardcore.

And stop speaking categorically and for everyone. What is a "fact" for you is nothing more than your wet fantasies for others.

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Ярри#5910 a écrit :

And another important point. If you define the goal of the game as LVL 100, it means that you are driven by an element of competitiveness. That is, you want to become better than others (and that's okay, it's like sports and competitions). The problem is something else. You want to become better than others without improving your skills. But that's absurd. It doesn't happen that way. That's why you're asking to change the rules of the game.

No, no, and no. This is just a flat out wrong take. The vast majority of posts complaining about death penalty say the complete opposite. It's the players who want to keep it that care about other people's progress. The people who don't like it don't want hours of XP taken away and value the extra passive points that other people claim they don't need. I've even suggested adding embarrassing cosmetics to players who remove XP penalty and all I got was agreement.

I seriously don't know how you came up with this take, it completely contradicts pretty much every post I've read that criticizes XP penalty.

I don't think it's the XP loss. It's the pairing of unfair deaths and no way to get the XP back.

The game incentivizes you to be pushing for harder and harder challenges once you get to maps. Your quest is literally to clear climbing tiers of corruption. And right now the game not only takes your XP when you die, but it also severely slows your progress when you try to play it safe by playing lower level maps and challenges... So you are suffering punishment from both ends and they both feel more frustrating than actually challenging. How shitty something feels is not synonymous with difficulty. It's just unfun, and isn't fun why we play games?

Couple that with the current balancing where you basically NEED to buy all your gear from the market because of lack of crafting options and the relative slow currency drop rate relative to market prices, power progression just feels insurmountable for what I would think would be a large portion of the player base that aren't able to play the game as if it was their job when you tack unrecoverable XP loss as well.

A lot of inspiration for this game seems to come from Dark Souls and one thing DS does really well is it gives you harder and harder challenges to face, but they are always fair... And when you are checked by those challenges, the loss is recoverable in a fair way.

So if you're going to rip off DS, than rip off DS and make XP Recoverable from corpse like other people have said here... That way you CAN still lose it if you aren't able to make it back, but you can also feel like all is not lost the moment you die.

Right now when I die, my immediate thought is, "fuck this game I'm out"...and I never felt that in DS or Elden Ring.

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Ярри#5910 a écrit :

"

kosmo_blacksmith#5449 a écrit :

Most straight forward and easy to understand thing to say:

It is the goal of the game.

The developers also didnt tell me how to build my character. Guess what...

Also suggested already, you may understand it, if I ask you, whats the problem with a quick lv100 then?

There is no achievement to be made, if I do not participate. And those who do, dont give a damn about xp loss or no xp loss. They just do not die regardless.
Thats like telling a speedrunner in darksouls he cant use armour. Slowclap...

To me it just sounds like a ego trip to have xp loss on death. Like trying to get poeople to think in a certain way about the numbers on my account.
That does tell about the player. Not about the game.

Then make it clear that this is YOUR goal of the game. Although it is more logical to assume that the goal of the game in its current state is to kill the last Referee boss. That's more logical, right? And if you killed him when you have 80 lvl, I personally think it's cooler. Than when you killed him for 100 lvl.

Basically, you can set yourself any goal (for example, accumulate 100 mirrors), and since it will be difficult to do this, you will ask to change the concept of the game, right? But no one said, and nowhere in the game is it written that the goal of the game is 100 lvl. You just misunderstood the purpose of the game, and you're asking to change the game to achieve YOUR goal. It turns out like this. I haven't made a mistake in my logical reasoning, have I?

What's it with the pro XP penalty crowd making strawman arguments? I haven't read one post from critics of XP penalty saying lvl100 is the goal of the game, not one. Yet this continues to be an argument that you and others insist players are making.

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Toforto#2372 a écrit :

Nobody is talking about lvl100. People just don't like losing their progress, its very simple.

Oh, you're not talking about Level 100 you're just talking about "progress."

Progress toward what, exactly?

Is it Level 100?

Did I guess it?

Like dude once you're doing these silly semantic dances you know your argument is out of gas.

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CovidPatientZero#0332 a écrit :

What's it with the pro XP penalty crowd making strawman arguments? I haven't read one post from critics of XP penalty saying lvl100 is the goal of the game, not one. Yet this continues to be an argument that you and others insist players are making.

Guy due respect here but it's really not a strawman it's just the reality of situation when you consider the objective facts involved. If you're not stressing about getting to 100 then XP loss shouldn't matter to you in the least because before ~93 the amount of XP you lose on death is absolutely trivial.

I told you in the other thread I died like 4 times yesterday to Volatile Plants and I'm already well beyond where I was before those deaths (and I had a long work day and did some landscaping after work so its not like I've put in a big session today).

The only rational reason anyone should care about XP loss is if they're trying to get to 100. There really is no other reason to care about it so no strawman is necessary.