The real problem of XP LOSS.

xp penalty just schouldnt exist . i get 0 xp progress by playing all day and i hit my limit in where i can see my character improve . the only way for me is levels and thats locked out so why play ? (minion only build specters lich lvl 83 t10-11 maps)

wElL YoUr BuIl bAd

well i dont care about meta/guides to make curent meta build i want to have fun and make my own build

as long as i could make progress i would be content but when the next upgrade is like 20-60 divs theres just no way for me to upgrade my gear , so the only thing left is leveling but i can do only like lvl 75 maps (t10-11 on my lvl 83 char) i still die there sometimes that wipes ALL my progress i made that day . it just sucks . you guys LOSE NOTHING if it gets removed so why do you cling to it soo much ? it would lyterali be only positive to have it removed . lvl 90+ takes like a week to level a single level anyway so it doesnt remove the grind

with many pages stacked up, ill say this much

dying in hc is not fun, dont try changing those rules, just don't play it.
dying in sc is also not fun, don't try changing these rules either, just don't play it.

if you do wanna play hc, learn, prepare, 'git really gud'
if you wanna learn to play sc, learn from your deaths, and gradually improve. its proven people can reach 100, its proven people can play dying little while not faulting the game, and its also said you dont need to get to 100... which also means you can do it too

alright alright, ive heard enough of times its all about losing hard earned xp. all those hours. im not ignoring this point. this is all you people think about and care about.

but before i address it, all y'alls complaining about it, i would like to know, how much exalts / divines have you spent on your gear? please provide a numerical/quantifiable answer.

"

AGMIN#1765 a écrit :

xp penalty just schouldnt exist . i get 0 xp progress by playing all day and i hit my limit in where i can see my character improve . the only way for me is levels and thats locked out so why play ? (minion only build specters lich lvl 83 t10-11 maps)

wElL YoUr BuIl bAd

well i dont care about meta/guides to make curent meta build i want to have fun and make my own build

as long as i could make progress i would be content but when the next upgrade is like 20-60 divs theres just no way for me to upgrade my gear , so the only thing left is leveling but i can do only like lvl 75 maps (t10-11 on my lvl 83 char) i still die there sometimes that wipes ALL my progress i made that day . it just sucks . you guys LOSE NOTHING if it gets removed so why do you cling to it soo much ? it would lyterali be only positive to have it removed . lvl 90+ takes like a week to level a single level anyway so it doesnt remove the grind

falsehood, fake news

if you don't lose xp, why would you need to upgrade? and oh boy, you were thinking of getting even more damage without spending on defenses werent you already..

"

Kerchunk#7797 a écrit :

"

Toforto#2372 a écrit :

Nobody is talking about lvl100. People just don't like losing their progress, its very simple.

Oh, you're not talking about Level 100 you're just talking about "progress."

Progress toward what, exactly?

Is it Level 100?

Did I guess it?

Like dude once you're doing these silly semantic dances you know your argument is out of gas.

"

CovidPatientZero#0332 a écrit :

What's it with the pro XP penalty crowd making strawman arguments? I haven't read one post from critics of XP penalty saying lvl100 is the goal of the game, not one. Yet this continues to be an argument that you and others insist players are making.

Guy due respect here but it's really not a strawman it's just the reality of situation when you consider the objective facts involved. If you're not stressing about getting to 100 then XP loss shouldn't matter to you in the least because before ~93 the amount of XP you lose on death is absolutely trivial.

I told you in the other thread I died like 4 times yesterday to Volatile Plants and I'm already well beyond where I was before those deaths (and I had a long work day and did some landscaping after work so its not like I've put in a big session today).

The only rational reason anyone should care about XP loss is if they're trying to get to 100. There really is no other reason to care about it so no strawman is necessary.

Now you're misrepresenting what I responded to and said. It's not the main goal of the game or THE goal of the game. It's one of the goals and an important one to many people.

The problem is that it gated behind multiple mechanics that basically require you to sink 1000 hours in a single character. It's completely discouraging to grind for several hours then lose all those hours of progress especially when there's so many cheeseball mechanics, imbalance, and not even a death log.

The people arguing to keep it insist that it's necessary to make death meaningful, yet they also claim no one needs those extra 8-10 skill points and it's pointless. That's not only completely contradictory, but they are also assuming what they think is best for other players.

I've suggested recovering XP on corpse and the pro XP penalty crowd keeps ignoring it completely and one response just said no and offered no reasons why, even though I've laid out several reasons it's a good compromise. At least I offered a compromise that other games have used successfully, the pro penalty crowd just refuse to even admit there's a problem, they are flat out unreasonable

"

LiMA6#0387 a écrit :

with many pages stacked up, ill say this much

dying in hc is not fun, dont try changing those rules, just don't play it.
dying in sc is also not fun, don't try changing these rules either, just don't play it.

if you do wanna play hc, learn, prepare, 'git really gud'
if you wanna learn to play sc, learn from your deaths, and gradually improve. its proven people can reach 100, its proven people can play dying little while not faulting the game, and its also said you dont need to get to 100... which also means you can do it too

alright alright, ive heard enough of times its all about losing hard earned xp. all those hours. im not ignoring this point. this is all you people think about and care about.

but before i address it, all y'alls complaining about it, i would like to know, how much exalts / divines have you spent on your gear? please provide a numerical/quantifiable answer.

Explain why recovering XP on corpse is a bad idea when there's limited portals. Stop avoiding it, go ahead and logically explain why

"

qQbonmjtAZ#7824 a écrit :

"

LiMA6#0387 a écrit :

with many pages stacked up, ill say this much

dying in hc is not fun, dont try changing those rules, just don't play it.
dying in sc is also not fun, don't try changing these rules either, just don't play it.

if you do wanna play hc, learn, prepare, 'git really gud'
if you wanna learn to play sc, learn from your deaths, and gradually improve. its proven people can reach 100, its proven people can play dying little while not faulting the game, and its also said you dont need to get to 100... which also means you can do it too

alright alright, ive heard enough of times its all about losing hard earned xp. all those hours. im not ignoring this point. this is all you people think about and care about.

but before i address it, all y'alls complaining about it, i would like to know, how much exalts / divines have you spent on your gear? please provide a numerical/quantifiable answer.

Explain why recovering XP on corpse is a bad idea when there's limited portals. Stop avoiding it, go ahead and logically explain why

Because fundamentally speaking there's reduced incentive to gear up and fix problems and increased incentive to carry on without making changes.

another way to put it, if you are rewarded for talking shit to people instead of getting a slap, then you'd feel empowered to continue doing so, than changing your way with words.

so the real question is, why is change and improvement so difficult?

"

LiMA6#0387 a écrit :

"

qQbonmjtAZ#7824 a écrit :

"

LiMA6#0387 a écrit :

with many pages stacked up, ill say this much

dying in hc is not fun, dont try changing those rules, just don't play it.
dying in sc is also not fun, don't try changing these rules either, just don't play it.

if you do wanna play hc, learn, prepare, 'git really gud'
if you wanna learn to play sc, learn from your deaths, and gradually improve. its proven people can reach 100, its proven people can play dying little while not faulting the game, and its also said you dont need to get to 100... which also means you can do it too

alright alright, ive heard enough of times its all about losing hard earned xp. all those hours. im not ignoring this point. this is all you people think about and care about.

but before i address it, all y'alls complaining about it, i would like to know, how much exalts / divines have you spent on your gear? please provide a numerical/quantifiable answer.

Explain why recovering XP on corpse is a bad idea when there's limited portals. Stop avoiding it, go ahead and logically explain why

Because fundamentally speaking there's reduced incentive to gear up and fix problems and increased incentive to carry on without making changes.

another way to put it, if you are rewarded for talking shit to people instead of getting a slap, then you'd feel empowered to continue doing so, than changing your way with words.

so the real question is, why is change and improvement so difficult?

Ok, I can see that argument if you remove XP penalty entirely, and honestly I don't want that. The problem is mainly the 10% XP loss to leveling up ratio at high levels.

Recovering XP on corpse is different. If you keep dying and lose your portals, you don't get it back. If you play a fully juiced map, you don't get it back. If you deliberately choose to play maps with less portals, you are generally getting less loot and XP, and you still have to go back to your corpse to recover it. Hell even make it take 5-10 seconds to get it back when on the dead body.

You really didn't answer how it's a bad idea when limited portals are involved, you just used the exact same response that you gave people who want it removed.

I'm offering a compromise that doesn't make death and defense meaningless, it just gives the player options if sh#& happens without wiping hours of grinding. It also keeps people from ignoring defense or playing content they aren't ready for.

If you disagree, then respond to the points I laid out and not some generic talking points directed at removing XP penalty altogether. I've even suggested raising map tiers so it's not such a slog to gain XP regardless of death. Something needs to change and it shouldn't be one extreme on either side.

n do it too

alright alright, ive heard enough of times its all about losing hard earned xp. all those hours. im not ignoring this point. this is all you people think about and care about.

but before i address it, all y'alls complaining about it, i would like to know, how much exalts / divines have you spent on your gear? please provide a numerical/quantifiable answer.[/quote]

Explain why recovering XP on corpse is a bad idea when there's limited portals. Stop avoiding it, go ahead and logically explain why[/quote]

Because fundamentally speaking there's reduced incentive to gear up and fix problems and increased incentive to carry on without making changes.

another way to put it, if you are rewarded for talking shit to people instead of getting a slap, then you'd feel empowered to continue doing so, than changing your way with words.

so the real question is, why is change and improvement so difficult?[/quote]

Ok, I can see that argument if you remove XP penalty. Recovering XP on corpse is different. If you keep dying and lose your portals, you don't get it back. If you play a fully juiced map, you don't get it back. If you deliberately choose to play maps with less portals, you are generally getting less loot and XP, and you still have to go back to your corpse to recover it. Hell even make it take 5-10 seconds to get it back when on the dead body.

You really didn't answer how it's a bad idea when limited portals are involved, you just used the exact same response that you gave people who want it removed.

I'm offering a compromise that doesn't make death and defense meaningless, it just gives the player options if sh#& happens without wiping hours of grinding. It also keeps people from ignoring defense or playing content they aren't ready for.

If you disagree, then respond to the points I laid out and not some generic talking points directed at removing XP penalty altogether [/quote]

This would then be a haven for bots and account sellers on top of other reasons. And then there's that, alright, lets keep 1 portal open, you get back your XP and then play safer to not lose anything more. So once again, evading punishment.

So you have 30 chaos resist, and occasionally chaos damage is a problem. Probably 1 in exactly 10 maps. Instead of putting effort into getting 75 chaos resist, you insist in continuing and playing maps with extra chaos damage and then come here to complain.

You people are just trying to find ways to not be penalized for dying without making attempts to improve yourselves. Just admit it.

"

qQbonmjtAZ#7824 a écrit :

You are flat out wrong. Cheeseball deaths that shouldn't happen do exist and even a slip up once in a while is not a skill issue, it's a mistake

Weirdly enough all of these "glitches", "bugs", "random one shots", "cheeseball deaths" never happen to me, yet they apparently are happening nonstop to the people who are struggling to reach level 90.

I wonder what the reason for that might be if it isnt skill difference?

"

Toforto#2372 a écrit :

So why does it matter if someone else wants to play the game differently without exp loss? Nothing would change for you if it was a toggle in the settings. Just like how HC and SSF are choices when making a character.

How other players want to enjoy the game doesn't affect anyone else. What's the problem in adding options for all types of players to be able to play the game how they want to? Why should everyone be forced to play in a specific way? That goes against everything PoE is about: player agency. Exp penalty only adds annoyance and makes people play in a certain risk-aversion way, avoiding any content until they have leveled up. It's such a ridiculous emergent gameplay. That's why people just want it gone or as an option you can turn on/off.

If you still want to lose your exp, you can keep it on. But the people who don't like it can disable it. Just like how you don't want to lose your character in HC so you don't play it. Its the same thing. All people are asking for here is player agency.

I dont understand how this is not self evident. But I guess I will just have to do you a favor and explain it anyway.

It matters because your playing on the same servers.
This would impact you in several ways even if you decide to not "change" the game for yourself. It would give certain people an unfair advantage in terms of the market, leaderboards, time spent, etc. Not to mention that it would kind of rob you of the "achievement" of reaching level 100.
Currently there are some people who like having a goal of reaching level 100 because it is an achievement. But if certain people could just turn off exp loss then it would just become pointless for those people.

The only way it would work would be for the people who opt in to it to be on their own league. This is also not a good idea because it would further splinter the playerbase which is not a good thing.