The real problem of XP LOSS.

"

LiMA6#0387 a écrit :

n do it too

alright alright, ive heard enough of times its all about losing hard earned xp. all those hours. im not ignoring this point. this is all you people think about and care about.

but before i address it, all y'alls complaining about it, i would like to know, how much exalts / divines have you spent on your gear? please provide a numerical/quantifiable answer.

Explain why recovering XP on corpse is a bad idea when there's limited portals. Stop avoiding it, go ahead and logically explain why[/quote]

Because fundamentally speaking there's reduced incentive to gear up and fix problems and increased incentive to carry on without making changes.

another way to put it, if you are rewarded for talking shit to people instead of getting a slap, then you'd feel empowered to continue doing so, than changing your way with words.

so the real question is, why is change and improvement so difficult?[/quote]

Ok, I can see that argument if you remove XP penalty. Recovering XP on corpse is different. If you keep dying and lose your portals, you don't get it back. If you play a fully juiced map, you don't get it back. If you deliberately choose to play maps with less portals, you are generally getting less loot and XP, and you still have to go back to your corpse to recover it. Hell even make it take 5-10 seconds to get it back when on the dead body.

You really didn't answer how it's a bad idea when limited portals are involved, you just used the exact same response that you gave people who want it removed.

I'm offering a compromise that doesn't make death and defense meaningless, it just gives the player options if sh#& happens without wiping hours of grinding. It also keeps people from ignoring defense or playing content they aren't ready for.

If you disagree, then respond to the points I laid out and not some generic talking points directed at removing XP penalty altogether [/quote]

This would then be a haven for bots and account sellers on top of other reasons. And then there's that, alright, lets keep 1 portal open, you get back your XP and then play safer to not lose anything more. So once again, evading punishment.

So you have 30 chaos resist, and occasionally chaos damage is a problem. Probably 1 in exactly 10 maps. Instead of putting effort into getting 75 chaos resist, you insist in continuing and playing maps with extra chaos damage and then come here to complain.

You people are just trying to find ways to not be penalized for dying without making attempts to improve yourselves. Just admit it.[/quote]

You are completely unreasonable and won't even address my points. You are making vague generic talking points that don't engage at all with what I said, it's almost like a cult mindset. I'm done talking to you.

"

Nyon#6673 a écrit :

"

qQbonmjtAZ#7824 a écrit :

You are flat out wrong. Cheeseball deaths that shouldn't happen do exist and even a slip up once in a while is not a skill issue, it's a mistake

Weirdly enough all of these "glitches", "bugs", "random one shots", "cheeseball deaths" never happen to me, yet they apparently are happening nonstop to the people who are struggling to reach level 90.

I wonder what the reason for that might be if it isnt skill difference?

Weirdly enough I never mentioned glitches or bugs. One shots from none rares and bosses do exist, no matter how much you try and deny. I've been one shooted from off screen spells while collecting loot, and so have many others. I've engaged with rares that have ridiculous mechanics stacked on top of each other(proximity dmg + mana drain + temporal + extra movement speed + spell circles that drain HP).

Either you play a screen clearing meta build where you don't have to actually engage with enemies, you haven't reached lvl 90, or you are just lying because you drew your line in the sand and refuse to budge.

"

Toforto#2372 a écrit :

Exactly, whats the point of even having lvl100 if the game is gonna gatekeep it with exp loss and random oneshots anyway? Why even have it, why not just make max lvl be 90 then and put those 10 points behind story quests then call it a day. Its so senseless.

The game doesnt have "random oneshots".
You have to stop making up excuses for your own bad play.

The fact is that these mechanics that you blame for your failure simply doesnt exist. And its self evident. If the game had random one shots, then how could there possibly be a playerbase for hardcore? Your just trying to make up your own facts to have the appearance of a valid argument, when the truth is that you can think for two seconds and it all falls apart.

No matter how many times someone explains to you why this mechanic is necessary it doesnt sink in so I will give you a couple of examples so maybe you can atleast to some extent realise that your in a minority and how ignorant you are on the subject.


The first example is Diablo 2. The game that started the hype for arpg games.
This game had exp loss on death. And granted that this is an old game when they made D2 resurrected they chose to keep the exp loss in place. Which means that they still thought that this was a necessary mechanic.

Next example is POE1, the most successful and imo best arpg made since D2.
This game also had exp loss throughout its entire lifetime, and still has.
Despite a minority of players constantly complaining about it and wanting it removed. They chose to keep it in the game despite people complaining about it, this is not done randomly, its an active choice because they think its a necessary mechanic.

Now lets move on to a different genre. World of Warcraft. The most impactful and revolutionary rpg game of our lifetime. A true masterpiece of its time.
Granted this game doesnt have exp loss on death, but as it is revealed in interviews the devs made a deliberate choice to make corpse runs in the game be very long because they felt it was important that death was punishing for the player, they go on to give reasons similar to what several others have tried to explain to you in this thread for why it is important.

And in a completetely different genre again. Lets look at Sekiro, another brilliant masterpiece and GOTY 2019. One of the achievements in this game is unlocking all skill points (which is actually very similar to reaching level 100 for all skill points in poe2). Grinding your last 10-15 skill points in Sekiro takes a ton of time, either trough double digit playtroughs or mindless grinding. And the exp loss on death in Sekiro is brutal. Sekiro is made by FromSoftware, which imo is the most respected game development company currently. In addition the same or similar mechanic can be found in all of their games.

I can go on and on giving examples like this, but I think you understand the pattern.

So since you cant understand anything we explain to you, maybe you could stop and think for a minute. Why is it that all of these massive big gaming companies, put these mechanics in their games. And not random games mind you, these are some of the most successful and well received games in recent times.

Obviously this isnt a mechanic that "does nothing" and only exists to "waste your time". It is a fundamental mechanic that is important for the game.
And even tho you lack the basic understanding of game development to understand why, you can at the very least forfeit that these game development legends obviously know more then you and realise that you are wrong and that these mechanics have a legitimate purpose and isnt just put in randomly.

You can have the opinion that you dont like it, you dont enjoy it, you think its too harsh, maybe it should be tuned, maybe not. But just sitting there saying on repeat that its a pointless mechanic with no purpse just makes you look ignorant and it makes your feedback worthless since it obviously has no constructive criticism or value and is in direct contrast to whats happening in the gaming industry currently and for the past 30 years.

"

qQbonmjtAZ#7824 a écrit :

Weirdly enough I never mentioned glitches or bugs. One shots from none rares and bosses do exist, no matter how much you try and deny. I've been one shooted from off screen spells while collecting loot, and so have many others. I've engaged with rares that have ridiculous mechanics stacked on top of each other(proximity dmg + mana drain + temporal + extra movement speed + spell circles that drain HP).

Either you play a screen clearing meta build where you don't have to actually engage with enemies, you haven't reached lvl 90, or you are just lying because you drew your line in the sand and refuse to budge.

These are the types of excuses that people make.
And even tho you didnt specificly say "glitch" or "bug". its not that different from saying "cheeseball deaths". Thats what I understand you meant and I dont think i was too far off.

Your factually incorrect. Im level 94 and I havent once died to something that wasnt my own fault. And I havent a single time been one shot to anything. Let alone some random white mob.

So please explain the logic. Why do you think the reason is that this doesnt happen to me, but you get one shot by random white mobs?

Why can some people play hardcore and level to 90+ with no deaths, but you cant?

The only answer to this question is that its skill difference, either in terms of avoiding mechanics or in term of character building.

You can have the opinion that certain mechanics are too punishing, and you should give feedback on which mechanics these are and why you find them too punishing.

But just blaming your failure on "random one shots" from white mobs is just laughable, pointless and does nothing but undermine your own opinion. The game has a hardcore playerbase, obviously there isnt random one shots from white mobs that are unavoidable.

Do yourself a favor and try to be more accurate and constructive in your feedback so it is atleast possible to try and take it seriously.

"

You are completely unreasonable and won't even address my points. You are making vague generic talking points that don't engage at all with what I said, it's almost like a cult mindset. I'm done talking to you.

actually i did, but since you're selectively processing my output or otherwise not processing, you can just answer the other guy who left a bombshell of logic and commonsense to tackle.

"

qQbonmjtAZ#7824 a écrit :

"

Nyon#6673 a écrit :

"

qQbonmjtAZ#7824 a écrit :

You are flat out wrong. Cheeseball deaths that shouldn't happen do exist and even a slip up once in a while is not a skill issue, it's a mistake

Weirdly enough all of these "glitches", "bugs", "random one shots", "cheeseball deaths" never happen to me, yet they apparently are happening nonstop to the people who are struggling to reach level 90.

I wonder what the reason for that might be if it isnt skill difference?

Weirdly enough I never mentioned glitches or bugs. One shots from none rares and bosses do exist, no matter how much you try and deny. I've been one shooted from off screen spells while collecting loot, and so have many others. I've engaged with rares that have ridiculous mechanics stacked on top of each other(proximity dmg + mana drain + temporal + extra movement speed + spell circles that drain HP).

Either you play a screen clearing meta build where you don't have to actually engage with enemies, you haven't reached lvl 90, or you are just lying because you drew your line in the sand and refuse to budge.

why not you show us your gear? tell us how much ehp you have. or if thats hard to understand, whats your current life/es and resists / evade / block / armor
or how much you've spent on your gear.


so far no one complaining about deaths are willing to show their gear or spending.

because if we're able to see it, we can have a more realistic idea of why these deaths happen, is it not?

This post has been funny to read so far. But seriously, this game is already swarmed by bots on trade and currency farming aspects, which already hurts economy on trade league.

If you remove xp loss on death, then bots will be better than real player on char progression as well. I know that many people dont care about ladder, but if a bot can reach 95+ easily, it wouldn’t be a great achievement anymore.

That is the kind of game you guys want?

Nyon, mate, you express your annoyance about how others choose to play the game and DEGRADE THEM and call them clueless and bad players and useless and with bad builds.

We are not bad players.
We have reached high 90s - 100
We have solid builds.
We don't force others to play our way.
We don't care if we reach 100 or not, that's not the goal.

We don't care if we die 1 time or 100 IF, we don't lose a week of EXP for it!

An option, to sprinkle the salt on our meal is what we ask.
We don't like to eat the meal with a KILO OF SALT, like you do.
We don't want to FORCE you to eat the meal without salt!

We only want an OPTION to adjust the seasoning for ourselves.
You want to force us to eat the meal with a kilo of salt each time ... ?
Because that's how it was served for 25 years ? Really?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Alternative solution for the same problem

Please add an option to disable exp gain!

A exp gain slider from 0 - 100 .
The lower the gain the more rarity.

Removes rarity slot from gear.
Removes Exp bar from UI when placed at 0% exp gained.
Allows people to lock their lvl and removes the negative factor of the bar going backwards.

"

Kodavor#1200 a écrit :

Nyon, mate, you express your annoyance about how others choose to play the game and DEGRADE THEM and call them clueless and bad players and useless and with bad builds.

We are not bad players.
We have reached high 90s - 100
We have solid builds.
We don't force others to play our way.
We don't care if we reach 100 or not, that's not the goal.

We don't care if we die 1 time or 100 IF, we don't lose a week of EXP for it!

An option, to sprinkle the salt on our meal is what we ask.
We don't like to eat the meal with a KILO OF SALT, like you do.
We don't want to FORCE you to eat the meal without salt!

We only want an OPTION to adjust the seasoning for ourselves.
You want to force us to eat the meal with a kilo of salt each time ... ?
Because that's how it was served for 25 years ? Really?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Alternative solution for the same problem

Please add an option to disable exp gain!

A exp gain slider from 0 - 100 .
The lower the gain the more rarity.

Removes rarity slot from gear.
Removes Exp bar from UI when placed at 0% exp gained.
Allows people to lock their lvl and removes the negative factor of the bar going backwards.

1. Thats not at all similar to what ive said. Your just seeing that someone disagrees with you and then you either choose to not read or you cant comprehend.

2. Stop copypasting the same nonesense with your stupid limp half meassures.

3. Lets for a minute assume that my only point is that your clueless and playing a bad build. Prove me wrong, share your build, what maps your playing or any footage of these "random unavoidable one shots". And I can almost guarantee you that I will instantly be able to tell you where the real problem is.

alright alright ill compromise

new unique helmet

- game no longer steals xp from the user
xp gain reduced by 1000%
- +322 to intelligence (i expect such builds to have extremely low intelligence and requires some)
- -322 to life and es (since dying does nothing, why would you need life)
- summons troll on death (mocks player on death, jumping around the body while dodging every hit from random monsters)
----

As the creator, I shall call the helmet "Weak's Helm".

can take 1?2? more prefixes if anyone has ideas.

increased damage taken?
reduced armor/evasion rating?
-2 to +2 to revives

1/2000 chance rarity, maybe variable xp gain reduction such that, on corruption, it can have 0 xp gain reduction (multi mirror value)