Devs don't read this and it's your fault

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DarKWolF90#6544 a écrit :

And when they do try to give feedback...

They get attacked by people who act like psychologists, masters of theories, supernaturally intelligent superheroes, etc. They get attacked by people who are so immature in real life that they think they NEED to give their opinion in an aggressive way to "correct" the other person in order to feel good or to be part of something. Or they get attacked by trolls who are going through some bad moments in real life and come here to spend hours fighting and arguing with others instead of doing something productive (I swear there is a guy who has like 40+ posts in a single topic I was reading here just trying to feel great by proving his points to dozens of other people, feels extremely pathetic).

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you that the feedback section here is full of useless posts and I think most of your post makes sense, but I don't think ALL feedbacks are bad like your post suggests, there are a few that are legit, but they get lost amidst hundreds of other low effort/bad feedbacks.

Now, about them not being able to understand the devs' vision about the game, well, I think it might not be that easy for someone who didn't play or followed PoE1. PoE2 is out for 2 months only and it is in Early Access, so may be it's hard for them to understand. However, yes, it really sucks that after the devs publicly stated they don't want to change "X or Y", people still come here to yell and stomp the ground like spoiled children asking for it to change.

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Philvil#9636 a écrit :

They get attacked by people who act like psychologists, masters of theories, supernaturally intelligent superheroes, etc. They get attacked by people who are so immature in real life that they think they NEED to give their opinion in an aggressive way to "correct" the other person in order to feel good or to be part of something. Or they get attacked by trolls who are going through some bad moments in real life and come here to spend hours fighting and arguing with others instead of doing something productive (I swear there is a guy who has like 40+ posts in a single topic I was reading here just trying to feel great by proving his points to dozens of other people, feels extremely pathetic).

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you that the feedback section here is full of useless posts and I think most of your post makes sense, but I don't think ALL feedbacks are bad like your post suggests, there are a few that are legit, but they get lost amidst hundreds of other low effort/bad feedbacks.

Now, about them not being able to understand the devs' vision about the game, well, I think it might not be that easy for someone who didn't play or followed PoE1. PoE2 is out for 2 months only and it is in Early Access, so may be it's hard for them to understand. However, yes, it really sucks that after the devs publicly stated they don't want to change "X or Y", people still come here to yell and stomp the ground like spoiled children asking for it to change.

+1 Well said!

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Philvil#9636 a écrit :

However, yes, it really sucks that after the devs publicly stated they don't want to change "X or Y", people still come here to yell and stomp the ground like spoiled children asking for it to change.

You mean those people that rioted when PoE1 was delayed indefinitely?

Or how does that differ from other Xs and Ys?

People bring up sh*t that much for it sometimes leads to results. And with the lack of upvotes and sorting by that, legitimate stuff gets pushed down the pages fast.

PoE2 does have a few stinkers that I'd guess a majority would agree on, yet you can't prove that without some form of vote.

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Philvil#9636 a écrit :

They get attacked by people who act like psychologists, masters of theories, supernaturally intelligent superheroes, etc. They get attacked by people who are so immature in real life that they think they NEED to give their opinion in an aggressive way to "correct" the other person in order to feel good or to be part of something. Or they get attacked by trolls who are going through some bad moments in real life and come here to spend hours fighting and arguing with others instead of doing something productive (I swear there is a guy who has like 40+ posts in a single topic I was reading here just trying to feel great by proving his points to dozens of other people, feels extremely pathetic).

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you that the feedback section here is full of useless posts and I think most of your post makes sense, but I don't think ALL feedbacks are bad like your post suggests, there are a few that are legit, but they get lost amidst hundreds of other low effort/bad feedbacks.

Now, about them not being able to understand the devs' vision about the game, well, I think it might not be that easy for someone who didn't play or followed PoE1. PoE2 is out for 2 months only and it is in Early Access, so may be it's hard for them to understand. However, yes, it really sucks that after the devs publicly stated they don't want to change "X or Y", people still come here to yell and stomp the ground like spoiled children asking for it to change.

While I agree with you, there is a huge problem, especially in this forum.

That ppl have different subjective views on things are normal, but here you will encounter pretty often ppl disagreeing on objective things.

For example, EXP-loss.

Some people die on the hill "EXP loss is bad and has to be removed". Their argument can be boiled down to the following: "The game is not respecting my time.".
Makes sense on the surface, but not when you look deeper into it.

The "EXP-loss" is not just a random punishment on death, it is a mechanic that has more meaning and reasons to it. I won't explain it here again because it doesn't matter for this text.
So, if you explain to them WHY it is in the game and even what would happen when the "EXP-loss" is removed, they still disagree because they don't like it.
But someone not liking something isn't reason enough to change it, especially when it is the "vision" of someone else and not implemented for the lulz.

You can tell them "If you die too often do X/Y/Z to improve" or "Use the omen for 75% less exp loss" or "Use the omen that prevents you from dying" or whatever, you suggest what you want - it's still "NO! The game is not respecting my time!" while this entire thing wasn't an issue in PoE1 for over 10 years.

The thing is, a game does not have to "respect your time" (how you want it).

Apply this logic to "Counter-Strike".

"That's stupid, I already killed all terrorists, but still need to defuse the bomb or I lose the round. The game does not respect my skill (time). This needs to be changed!"

Asking for the game to change something that is there for a reason is not "advocating for the game respecting my time" it's "not respecting the game".

I've read a lot of feedback, like... a lot, but often "negative feedback" boils down to "I don't like it - remove it" instead of engaging with already present solutions and "non-negative feedback" gets ignored or even worse, talked down.

I frankly don't get this mindset. There are many games out there I don't play because they have things I don't like (not being for me), so I just don't play them instead of trying to force changes to my personal needs.

And there is a difference. If someone makes a post "Need help! I die too often and don't make level progress." many ppl will spend THEIR TIME helping this person without a second thought because they like to help, but if a personal issue gets turned into "I not only make a post about it, nah, I go in many other posts and voice it there, so they remove it", that helps nobody.
Not the player, not the community, not the devs... it just becomes toxic.

Long story short, if more ppl would search for solutions to their problems that could already exist and/or voice their issues in a normal and not demanding way, this platform would be way better.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

That ppl have different subjective views on things are normal, but here you will encounter pretty often ppl disagreeing on objective things.

For example, EXP-loss.

Holy shit are you serious? You really, really need to get out of that 40 challenge cave. There's stuff outside of PoE, has been for 12+ years.

I give you it's controversial, because some people still defend it - mostly those that haven't done anything but PoE those years, but that it's objectively right is a massive joke.

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Solmyr77#1930 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

That ppl have different subjective views on things are normal, but here you will encounter pretty often ppl disagreeing on objective things.

For example, EXP-loss.

Holy shit are you serious? You really, really need to get out of that 40 challenge cave. There's stuff outside of PoE, has been for 12+ years.

I give you it's controversial, because some people still defend it - mostly those that haven't done anything but PoE those years, but that it's objectively right is a massive joke.

I didn't expect to get a perfect example related to my text, but there you are.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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Solmyr77#1930 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

That ppl have different subjective views on things are normal, but here you will encounter pretty often ppl disagreeing on objective things.

For example, EXP-loss.

Holy shit are you serious? You really, really need to get out of that 40 challenge cave. There's stuff outside of PoE, has been for 12+ years.

I give you it's controversial, because some people still defend it - mostly those that haven't done anything but PoE those years, but that it's objectively right is a massive joke.

I didn't expect to get a perfect example related to my text, but there you are.

Haha, you weren't able to bring up an argument in the xp loss thread and this is no better. You can try to be snarky and elitist, but I guess we can't expect anything substantial from you?

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Solmyr77#1930 a écrit :

Haha, you weren't able to bring up an argument in the xp loss thread and this is no better. You can try to be snarky and elitist, but I guess we can't expect anything substantial from you?

Listen, this was an example and besides this just being an example to envision a problem - I already laid out everything ppl need to know about EXP-loss, anyway.

Do you understand the actual message in my text or not? You, now acting like this make it seem like you don't.

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Solmyr77#1930 a écrit :

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Philvil#9636 a écrit :

However, yes, it really sucks that after the devs publicly stated they don't want to change "X or Y", people still come here to yell and stomp the ground like spoiled children asking for it to change.

You mean those people that rioted when PoE1 was delayed indefinitely?

Or how does that differ from other Xs and Ys?

People bring up sh*t that much for it sometimes leads to results. And with the lack of upvotes and sorting by that, legitimate stuff gets pushed down the pages fast.

PoE2 does have a few stinkers that I'd guess a majority would agree on, yet you can't prove that without some form of vote.

Nah, what I meant is: In the first few weeks people gave their feedback about a lot of things like mf, 1 portal per map, xp loss on death, etc, which is valid of course because it was the first time they were expressing their feelings. But then the devs answered to these matters on the interview with ghazzy and darth saying they are not changing these things, and even after that people are insisting on asking them to get changed.

Personally I'm neutral towards all these mechanics, so I'm not here to defend anything and I don't want to be part of this "fight". I can live with them the way they are now but I can also live with them if they are changed.

The problem in my opinion is that people are spamming the forums and reddit complaining about these things even after their requests were addressed and denied by the Game Director, for me it seems like they are trying to "win through yelling" or "win through tiredness/insistence" like we say here in my country. I mean, I respect people being against or in favor of these mechanics being changed, what I think that pollutes the forum is people not accepting a "no" as an answer and also people attacking them on their posts and bringing toxicity to this forum.

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Solmyr77#1930 a écrit :

I think this forum lacks an upvote feature for good feedback. People don't reply when they agree, maybe in 1% of cases, so mostly threads with controversial topics stay hot and they are often derailed.

I also agree that 90% of posts are useless, flawed "arguments" get repeated ad nauseam.

It also seems to lack all the normal forum tools; stickies, thread merge notably. Plus other user ones like ignore etc. I mean it's very nostalgic (for forums long before even poe 1), but not exactly efficient.