Logout-macros, Logging out needs to go

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grepman a écrit :

the macro is for spoofing a RST packet to the server,telling it to reset connection NOW. alt+f4 closes the client but doesnt tell the server, which has a disconnect detection mechanism that actually has a timer.

I'm going to split hairs on this one a little bit.

Most macros send a TCP disconnect packet, yeah true.

Alt+F4 does a sane shutdown of the game client. Which will result in a single TCP disconnect packet being sent if your game client doesn't crash.

The fundamental difference here is that the macro is completely independent of the client, and can work even if your client breaks.

Additionally, if your internet gives you a brief moment of really bad latency that the game client can't recover from, alt-f4 could leave your character idle in-game for significantly longer than 5 seconds until the server decides that your connection has gone stale (depending on the nature of the interruption it could be much more than 5 seconds which is the server's criteria for detecting a stale connection). In this kind of a degraded-connection state, you could say hit your logout macro 10 times and still succeed in disconnecting almost immediately.

Won't make a difference in cases where your internet goes down hard though.

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Zakaluka a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

the macro is for spoofing a RST packet to the server,telling it to reset connection NOW. alt+f4 closes the client but doesnt tell the server, which has a disconnect detection mechanism that actually has a timer.

I'm going to split hairs on this one a little bit.

Most macros send a TCP disconnect packet, yeah true.

Alt+F4 does a sane shutdown of the game client. Which will result in a single TCP disconnect packet being sent if your game client doesn't crash.

The fundamental difference here is that the macro is completely independent of the client, and can work even if your client breaks.

Additionally, if your internet gives you a brief moment of really bad latency that the game client can't recover from, alt-f4 could leave your character idle in-game for significantly longer than 5 seconds until the server decides that your connection has gone stale (depending on the nature of the interruption it could be much more than 5 seconds which is the server's criteria for detecting a stale connection). In this kind of a degraded-connection state, you could say hit your logout macro 10 times and still succeed in disconnecting almost immediately.

Won't make a difference in cases where your internet goes down hard though.

according to this post, its not just a matter of sending a single packet, there is a shutdown procedure that isnt just a rst packet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/31qzdn/im_challenging_altf4_being_the_fastest_way_to/

and like youve said, if your client is freezing, behaving improperly or crashing, youre asking to get fucked if you dont use TCP macro

myself, I dont play hc often to use the macro, but I had some dicey situation in breaches and with desync in mayhem hc. I just portaled out because I know alt+f4 will get me killed more likely than if I can escape with a portal.

I despise the whole defence over this that it's because of "disconnects" and "bad connections". You're lying to yourselves if that's the only reason you're using it. Look at all the streamers, any time there's a dodgy pack, just use that macro and away you go! What like 5-10% of the time it's actually used for connection issues?

The whole thing is a farce, especially in hardcore, either build it into the client so everyone has it, or the use of it. Another idea would be to flag those who use it, if you want to use a logout macro then let it be known on your account. Something similar to solo self found. Put them in their own league.

I've no respect for those that do use it, it's just dirty, end off.

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grepman a écrit :

according to this post, its not just a matter of sending a single packet, there is a shutdown procedure that isnt just a rst packet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/31qzdn/im_challenging_altf4_being_the_fastest_way_to/

Absolutely true, but at the end of the process ultimately a TCP disconnect gets sent.

The problem is it still does leave room for client instability or degraded internet to get you killed. Because after closing the game client, you can't close it again. Or if the game client won't close, you have no idea how long your character is going to stay in-game.

I think you and I are on the same page, yes?

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DiiSogo a écrit :

just use that macro and away you go! What like 5-10% of the time it's actually used for connection issues?

Pretty much yeah. But client instability has been enough to push plenty of competitive gamers over the edge into adopting macros. After the 2nd or 3rd time you lose your character to a game crash, you'll start to wonder "what about that TCP disconnect macro?"

But I think you're mis-reading this defense because it's a side-note at best. At the center is always: macros will be used because they're available and PoE is a competitive game. It doesn't go any deeper than that. Some people refuse to use one; great on them, but they'll be less competitive. On that vein, you might feel like you're being handicapped because you don't want a macro, but that's not the issue at the center. I provided most of the more relevant chris quotes on this if you look back to the front page.

Justify to GGG why they should sanitize their game of crazy RNG, like Blizzard did for rifts in Diablo 3, so that you can convince them that timed logouts or portal-only should be a thing. This is the dialogue Chris has set around logouts, not me.

One possible way to go would be if clicking on the portal in your inventory just sent you to town. I'd be down with something like that. I don't think GGG would have to change their general approach to content balance.

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DiiSogo a écrit :

The whole thing is a farce, especially in hardcore, either build it into the client so everyone has it, or the use of it. Another idea would be to flag those who use it, if you want to use a logout macro then let it be known on your account. Something similar to solo self found. Put them in their own league.

I've no respect for those that do use it, it's just dirty, end off.

GGG have many game central mechanics that are not part of the main-game.

You could just as easily argue that people using poe.trade are cheating, because it is not hosted on the homepage of PoE.

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Zakaluka a écrit :

Justify to GGG why they should sanitize their game of crazy RNG, like Blizzard did for rifts in Diablo 3, so that you can convince them that timed logouts or portal-only should be a thing. This is the dialogue Chris has set around logouts, not me.

And i think thats all there is to really discuss.

Personally, i'd argue that that would make PoE a complete trainwreck. Making the game all around easier for both hardcore and softcore alike just to get rid of an instant escape mechanism makes no sense.

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Zakaluka a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

according to this post, its not just a matter of sending a single packet, there is a shutdown procedure that isnt just a rst packet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/31qzdn/im_challenging_altf4_being_the_fastest_way_to/

Absolutely true, but at the end of the process ultimately a TCP disconnect gets sent.

The problem is it still does leave room for client instability or degraded internet to get you killed. Because after closing the game client, you can't close it again. Or if the game client won't close, you have no idea how long your character is going to stay in-game.

I think you and I are on the same page, yes?

definitely on the same page haha

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DiiSogo a écrit :

I despise the whole defence over this that it's because of "disconnects" and "bad connections". You're lying to yourselves if that's the only reason you're using it. Look at all the streamers, any time there's a dodgy pack, just use that macro and away you go! What like 5-10% of the time it's actually used for connection issues?

The whole thing is a farce, especially in hardcore, either build it into the client so everyone has it, or the use of it. Another idea would be to flag those who use it, if you want to use a logout macro then let it be known on your account. Something similar to solo self found. Put them in their own league.

I've no respect for those that do use it, it's just dirty, end off.

youre confusing the two

because of disconnects/bad connections the macro is allowed (remember we had desync - and those of us who play predictive still do, I have 12 ms ping but my ISP is shit with lag spikes)

because its allowed with no restrictions, competitive streamers/racers use it to the fullest, just like any competitions you do whatever within boundaries to get edge or to keep up.

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DiiSogo a écrit :

I despise the whole defence over this that it's because of "disconnects" and "bad connections". You're lying to yourselves if that's the only reason you're using it. Look at all the streamers, any time there's a dodgy pack, just use that macro and away you go! What like 5-10% of the time it's actually used for connection issues?

The whole thing is a farce, especially in hardcore, either build it into the client so everyone has it, or the use of it. Another idea would be to flag those who use it, if you want to use a logout macro then let it be known on your account. Something similar to solo self found. Put them in their own league.

I've no respect for those that do use it, it's just dirty, end off.

Im not sure you got the whole memo that the game is built around the ability to instant logout

hey they sent this thread to the graveyard