Are Stash Tabs Pay To Win ? Science

"

Veruski a écrit :

"

mark1030 a écrit :

"

Veruski a écrit :

unlike real life unused space in PoE doesn't need to be cleaned, kept up with, and it isn't taxed.

so your argument is pretty crap.

I never said anything about taxes or anything you are trying to include in my statement to try to dilute the argument. I was talking solely about maintaining. Are you saying you just put items in your stash and leave them there?

You are misquoting and misconstruing my counter.

I bolded the incredibly important word that was part of a sentence that you quoted.

So yes, I don't spend any time maintaining empty stash tabs.

You said more stash tabs necessitates more maintenance. That isn't true. You could simply not put items in them. Argument rebuffed.

"

pneuma a écrit :

That's still a broken argument.

Stash tabs can be used to gain efficiency. There is a real benefit in being able to have all your items in one place and not require the time spent muling items (logging in and out of accounts and multi-clienting). Why does anyone think that this is not true?

By that definition of P2W, buying exalted orbs in the shop isn't 'truly' P2W because people can potentially not use them. The buyers just want them sitting in their stash to feel rich. It's also a bit of a downside since they have to scroll past all their pages full of exalts to get to their actual items.

"

mark1030 a écrit :

So your argument is that stash tabs are only pay 2 win if they are being used?

"

mark1030 a écrit :

Since you are now focusing on empty tabs, that's what it sounds like. Empty stash tabs cannot possibly be an advantage, so can't be P2W, can they? Why are we talking about empty stash tabs?

"

Veruski a écrit :

"

mark1030 a écrit :

So your argument is that stash tabs are only pay 2 win if they are being used?

I didn't argue that, but it's quite obviously true.

To be pedantic about it, you could say it's necessary for them to be used for it to constitute an advantage, but not sufficient, as you correctly pointed out that it is possible to misuse them.

"

mark1030 a écrit :

So do all the other microtransactions also qualify as P2W in your book? Because they have the potential to be used as an advantage. They allow you to see in the midst of a full screen of graphics which skills are coming from you (giving you an advantage of knowing your position better than somebody who can't see which skills originate from their character if others also use the same skills). They also allow you to see if your auras are on or off easier as well as if you have buffs active like Arctic Armour. If you do not count those things as P2W also even though they have "potential" to give an advantage, why do you think they're different?

"

Gemdraco a écrit :

The entire argument that more stash tab space equals "Pay to Win" is nothing more than some weak argument posed by sophists in an attempt to make it stronger. Bottom line is having more stash tab space DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MAKING IT TO THE TOP.

"

pneuma a écrit :

"

mark1030 a écrit :

So do all the other microtransactions also qualify as P2W in your book? Because they have the potential to be used as an advantage. They allow you to see in the midst of a full screen of graphics which skills are coming from you (giving you an advantage of knowing your position better than somebody who can't see which skills originate from their character if others also use the same skills). They also allow you to see if your auras are on or off easier as well as if you have buffs active like Arctic Armour. If you do not count those things as P2W also even though they have "potential" to give an advantage, why do you think they're different?

No.

Not that you've read most of what I've said, but my personal line of "P2W" is above Stash Tabs. I'm not blind to the fact that stash tabs can be used for an advantage, but I don't consider it game-crushing. I used to consider it to be quite a huge advantage back in CB when the matching names recipe was much, much easier and free accounts were not possible... but that's not the case anymore.

Cosmetic effects are even lower gains of efficiency over the normal player than stash tabs, so obviously I have no problem with them.

If the question you're really asking is "are cosmetics an advantage over not having them", then it's a mixed bag. Some do act as beacons to make the player stand out (most of the glowing helmets). Others are not particularly more noticeable than the default, or even less noticeable in some cases (hatred v. skull hatred).

I will concede that it's very possible theoretically for cosmetics to provide an undue advantage. The simplest solution for GGG is to allow people to earn a glowing helmet or two without paying for them. In general, earning cosmetics need not be a purely money thing. As it turns out, it's already possible for people to earn cosmetics without money (either placing high in races and getting Golden Footprints (and other demigod's mtxs), or by killing Atziri and gaining her mtx, or whatever else GGG adds in the future).

In the future, I would really appreciate it if you spend as much time reading my posts as I do reading yours.

"

Gemdraco a écrit :

The entire argument that more stash tab space equals "Pay to Win" is nothing more than some weak argument posed by sophists in an attempt to make it stronger. Bottom line is having more stash tab space DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MAKING IT TO THE TOP.

Describing the other side as weak and sophist doesn't make your point valid nor make other points invalid.

The words you are struggling to find are that Stash Tabs provide a very small advantage. So small, in fact, that it shouldn't be considered to affect ladder placement. Separately, you personally have no problems with selling very small advantages for money, with no other way to receive those very small advantages other than paying money.

Is it P2W for GGG to sell something that increases your character's DPS by 1?
I would wager that you would say no. I would also say no. I would wager that Veruski would say yes.

Nobody is wrong because "P2W" is a personal threshold. However, is it an advantage? The answer should be unanimously yes. A small advantage is an advantage.

"

Crusader_7 a écrit :

it amuses me how so many people are arguing against the obvious, that stash tabs are pay to win pay for serious advantage. Is it so bad to just admit the obvious?

It amuses me how so often they try to justify this talk by resorting to "chaos recipe", avoiding the FACT, that there are other useful recipes that generate currency that CAN'T POSSIBLY BE DONE EVEN 1/100 AS FAST as you can with 100 STASH TABS TO STORE THE ITEMS.

it amuses me how when people talk advantage for cash stash tabs, they ignore the advantages by saying you can open multiple accounts.

i logged in just to express how amusing this little thread has become.

words like, "my stash tabs mostly remain empty".

SO, WHAT?

words like, "my things just get thrown around and they are all disorganized".

SO, WHAT?

words like, "it may be faster that opening multiple accounts and characters to sift through my items, but that's not an advantage".

HAHAHAHAHAHAH.

seriously. Comedy.

Stash tabs ARE pay to win PAY for advantage.

i also find it amusing how we all know, for a fact... a 100% FACT... that if we were in a currency race, 100 stash tabs would beat 4 and mules, every, single, time. If everyone was exactly the same skill.

I just wish GGG would create a less dull, boring kind of Pay For Advantage.

They could make a pet that attacks but NOOOOOO, they can only make a bigger closet for hoarders who want to run alchemy recipes. And chaos sets and whatever else, so they can trade the currency in for high end gear.

Stash Tabs, pay to win no matter how messy yours are, no matter how disorganized yours are, no matter if you only run a chaos recipe, no matter how many mules you may play with.

no matter if you bought so many stash tabs and just don't want to admit they you are what you said you don't like.

you are a pay for advantage person.

100 stash tabs lets them generate the ex's etc they need to get the highest end gear, for themselves or their friends.

it's what top players do.

have no school or job to get to so they play a league start for 2 weeks straight 16 hours a day, with their friends stacking them with leveled gems and gear that they all were finding, or buying with their mass stash tab currency drive aka cash for advantage.

stash tabs being a huge part of their collective pool of little ex's etc they use to stack these people up.

Stash Tabs = Pay to Win Advantage.

End of Story.

The next lesson for the 8 year olds in class, will be why having no job or no school etc, is the best way to win GGG's Leagues. And why GGG should obviously, just as obvious as stash tab advantages, change it so the jobless etc can't just play for 16 hours a day.

like telling me i should be in a race, but i can only race half as long as someone else.

one of the worst aspects of a game's design, ever.

almost as bad as no pay to win except boring stash tabs.

almost as bad as scion.