Your game might be broken when....

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Betrunken a écrit :

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Caiada a écrit :

GGG believes that there should be situations where you die 100% of the time if you are not omniscient or have previous knowledge of the boss. This is the same sort of balancing Blizzard North, GGG's unfailing role model, used way back in Classic D2 when MSLE existed and would just one-shot you in melee range or when Iron Maiden was still on Oblivion Knights.

If you disagree with their balance, well, don't play Hardcore. It's not going to change.

I am ok with this. But having a to remember 60 bosses, and having less than 2 seconds to react to a randomly placed boss that can 1-2 shot a super tanky build is taking it to the extreme.

And that's why I disagree with their HC balance and only play SC ^^

It just seems stressful to me. At any moment, one tiny mistake (or desync, but that is another thread) is going to negate all the time I put into a character? Hell no.

@Legatus1982
I will tell you this much about myself. This account is older than yours and has achieved more. This account is also my second which has achieved less than my first.


Colby was not running Arctic Armour. Arctic Armour in the first video would make no difference for obvious reasons. It actually makes a lot more sense why he died though. If he was an evasion build and the spell was a physical spell that can not be evaded... Well he is just screwed now isn't he. I guess that is what happens when GGG designs bosses to counter builds.

My profile was set to private because I enjoy people that are intelligent and not those that want to stroke epeens comparing how big theirs is compared to the next guy.

I know it is hard to believe that other players have better sight than you and able to pick out bosses faster than you can. Even more so coming from a guy that doesn't want to show anything he has achieved.

Almost done first skull and will probably get 4 skulls before the league is over. I don't play Ambush, SC, or HC. I only play Invasion and Nemesis before that and Onslaught before that.

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Clocksimus a écrit :

@Legatus1982
I will tell you this much about myself. This account is older than yours and has achieved more. This account is also my second which has achieved less than my first.

Yeah, I like to 'smurf on the forums' too. Jackass.

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Clocksimus a écrit :

Colby was not running Arctic Armour.

He was talking about the 3rd death to that same boss. If you notice, that video says '4th' - he had arctic armor on occasions 2 and 3 on this same exact boss. They were different builds - with uber high defenses, etc.

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Clocksimus a écrit :

My profile was set to private because I enjoy people that are intelligent and not those that want to stroke epeens comparing how big theirs is compared to the next guy.

Yeeeyah - we can tell you really don't care by how you're hiding it.

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Clocksimus a écrit :

I know it is hard to believe that other players have better sight than you and able to pick out bosses faster than you can. Even more so coming from a guy that doesn't want to show anything he has achieved.

Almost done first skull and will probably get 4 skulls before the league is over. I don't play Ambush, SC, or HC. I only play Invasion and Nemesis before that and Onslaught before that.

You're so full of bull, it's very easy to sit where you are and talk all elitist. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you can defend a broken feature all day, but when it boils down to it, ripping in 0.5 seconds to a boss almost off screen isn't fun. It's not fun and it's not even 'hardcore'. When it happens 4 times in a row to the same player running different builds - a player who is obviously far more experienced and better at this game than you are (I can tell, because they're not hiding their epeen anywhere. As if you're doing everyone a favor by not showing your achievements or accomplishments for our own sake - OH PLEASE) it is something that should be intelligently discussed by the grown ups.

First off, I want to say Clocksimus's analysis is one of the best quality posts in this thread. However, I definitely think Betrunken has a point too (even if not as well articulated) about risk/reward.

Clocksimus is correct that both players should have realized the danger they were in seconds prior to their deaths, and thus had opportunities to take immediate action. As such, I think it's fair to say both characters should have lived.

However, I do not believe said immediate action should have involved pressing forward and facing the boss, at least not from a risk/reward perspective. No, the best immediate action was to back away and progress through the zone using an alternate route which didn't involve the risk of fighting such abominations.

If GGG wants players to actually face those dangers once they see them, as opposed to running away like cowards, they're going to have to couple Invasion bosses with significant loot. Don't get me wrong, I'm with Clocksimus as far as nerfing the bosses themselves: keep them brutally difficult. That part is fine. But make them worth the effort to actually defeat.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Clocksimus is correct that both players should have realized the danger they were in seconds prior to their deaths, and thus had opportunities to take immediate action. As such, I think it's fair to say both characters should have lived.

There is no way that Colby could have known what danger he was in seconds before his death - that boss looks the exact same as all the other mobs, and when there are that many mobs to deal with you are obviously going to focus on the danger in front of you, and not the danger thats halfway off screen that looks the same. When you notice that boss it's already too late.

Explain how Colby should have known based on those circumstances? "thus had opportunities, take immediate action, as such". You're using big words to explain yoruself, but you're not explaing anything. You're like "yeah he shoulda known and stuff". You must think you sound waaay smart huh?

Use your big words to explain, not generalize please. Your whole paragraph amounted to nothing.

I don't think anyone is saying the bosses are balanced or easy.

I think what everyone is saying is this league is there as a 'fucking hard game'

That is the entire point of invasion. It is difficult. It is challenging. It is likely to get you killed

Indeed the Invasion league is there as an overtuned league, to be what so many complain about PoE, something that is not just a 'snoozefest' but if you don't do it perfectly you die.


So its not for you? Thats not a bad thing. Just play a different league. The Invasion league is there for people who WANT that 'almost dead' everytime.

Judging from the fact there is a level 86 on ladder alive. It is working. And a level 87 dead. its working

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

First off, I want to say Clocksimus's analysis is one of the best quality posts in this thread.

Yeah, on paper for sure. In reality, not so much. Again, it's easy to watch a video and start to babble about the player's mistakes afterwards. I'd be highly surprised if he (or you) could live up to the theoretical crap yourselves. Given you are human beings, not machines.

@Clocksimus: You say you are a HC only player.

You don't have a single char in the HC top 2000.
You don't have a single char in the invasion top 2000.

That said, your highest level invasion char must be level 64 or lower. That said, the guys in the videos are tackling content that you haven't even reached yet. Content that's more difficult than anything you have experienced yet.

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kruemel2222 a écrit :

Yeah, on paper for sure. In reality, not so much. Again, it's easy to watch a video and start to babble about the player's mistakes afterwards. I'd be highly surprised if he (or you) could live up to the theoretical crap yourselves. Given you are human beings, not machines.

i find this an interesting statement. You seem to be going towards the 'theory is completely pointless' discussion.

Now when we look into, for example, games of SC2. We can easily analyse these games, and discuss things that could have been done better. For example, during 'x' fight, you could have made a better concave on your enemies army, to get better damage output. This would have required more micro.

The fact that it is POSSIBLE to be done is true. Whether the person pointing this out can do it is IRRELEVANT. Perhaps that person lost because he did NOT have the skill/ability to do this. That is fine.

Take a game of Dota as another example. If someone is missing lots of last hits, end then the game ends with them losing. It is fairly normal to say 'this person could have done a lot better earlygame to give a better lategame'. Does the person pointing this out HAVE to be the best Dota player in the world and never miss a CS? No. Infact whether they can is IRRELEVANT. The fact is it CAN be done.


You are now trying to say that what Clocksimus has said is IMPOSSIBLE. If you are not saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to move back or use enfeeble (lol), you are attempting a fallacy, saying that because Clocksimus may not be able to do that, no one can.



So what is it?


Is it possible to not charge into a group of enemies leap slamming, and instead go slower and put enfeeble on?



Or because Clock doesn't have any high level Invasion characters, does no one in the world have this ability.


And if someone has the ability, then yes, it is possible, therefore his analysis is on point. There is something that could have been done

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And if someone has the ability, then yes, it is possible, therefore his analysis is on point. There is something that could have been done

The whole theorycrafting about how he could avoid his death is pretty silly. You can avoid every death in PoE in hindsight. It also makes it as if these players are bad at PoE when in reality they have managed to survive in invasion far more than most players.

I just don't agree with the position that the players did badly. Colby has ondar's guile so can dodge all hits from enemies in that room, he simply did not recognize the boss since she blends so well. Even if he did recognize her it's not like he can fight her, I'd definitely run away in that situation.

Bob is in a similiar situation. The boss was also not very recognizable and was in a dark corner. Bob was not even moving towards the boss or standing still. This boss can shoot from very far if you're wondering and is not easy at all even when you see it. Ball lightning is very much OP since it homes on you with its arcs, has long range,can shock you and the boss spams elemental weakness during that.

Invasion is fun. Most bosses are quite reasonable. I find it confusing that some people are against some obviously overtuned bosses having better balance.

Kasub, its not saying that he did badly.

Its saying he could do better.

The first time he died, that might have been being done badly.

But thats what learning is.



So he COULD do better is the point. That is it