It's frustrating how good Bringer of Rain is.

I must say...

I'm saddened by the amount of people claiming blind is bad. Seems there's quite a few people no longer playing the game and just using the forums.

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bhavv a écrit :

Blind isnt really that important.

A strong 6L chestpiece + better helm is vastly better always.

A 6L Chest/Helm setup that is better than a BoR for most melee builds is gonna cost a tremendous amount more than a BoR. And by a tremendous amount more, we're talking about you have to basically have BiS Chest/Helm to surpass a 7 link setup that BoR gives (on top of the extra block which is just nonsense).

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allbusiness a écrit :

A 6L Chest/Helm setup that is better than a BoR for most melee builds is gonna cost a tremendous amount more than a BoR. And by a tremendous amount more, we're talking about you have to basically have BiS Chest/Helm to surpass a 7 link setup that BoR gives (on top of the extra block which is just nonsense).

Nope, not BiS, not even close.

But it would cost a lot more certainly.

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tinko92 a écrit :

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allbusiness a écrit :

A 6L Chest/Helm setup that is better than a BoR for most melee builds is gonna cost a tremendous amount more than a BoR. And by a tremendous amount more, we're talking about you have to basically have BiS Chest/Helm to surpass a 7 link setup that BoR gives (on top of the extra block which is just nonsense).

Nope, not BiS, not even close.

But it would cost a lot more certainly.

For certain builds it's gonna cost alot; remember, you would have to respec alot of your passive tree in order to get obtain the max block (or close to max block) that BoR would give you.


And yes, it pretty much has to be a 6L Tri-Res with near perfect rolls on everything for it to be better than a BoR setup. BoR gives you a huge block boost, which is basically the best defense in the game. Your Chest/Helm setup has to be ridiculously good for it to overcome the extra block you get from BoR (ontop of the 7L which has blind).

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allbusiness a écrit :

For certain builds it's gonna cost alot; remember, you would have to respec alot of your passive tree in order to get obtain the max block (or close to max block) that BoR would give you.


And yes, it pretty much has to be a 6L Tri-Res with near perfect rolls on everything for it to be better than a BoR setup. BoR gives you a huge block boost, which is basically the best defense in the game. Your Chest/Helm setup has to be ridiculously good for it to overcome the extra block you get from BoR (ontop of the 7L which has blind).

First you've done well, concentrated on the block mod, and then you go completely wrong.

Generally, helmet with 500+ AR/EV and 80+ life, chest with 2000+ AR/EV and 80+ life (other mods are desirable, on the helmet too).

Blind is fairly useful, but that's all, I've never seen anyone actually putting the Blind gem in their main skill setup, which speaks for itself.

Block chance is excellent for the block builds, for anything else, it's just useful, "better to have it than not have it".

So, in the end, for a chest + helmet to beat BoR with block builds, it would require 50+ ex (not nearly BiS, obviously).

And for the non-block builds, 30+ ex is sufficient.

Nothing BiS required to be better.

I think PoE is creating a serious problem. More and more absurdly powerful uniques are being introduced, and it's clear that GGG intend to gate the advanced builds behind build-enabling uniques. These builds either straight up require a certain unique item, or are made so much more powerful by this unique that playing the build without it is just depressing and unappealing.

The game doesn't have a smooth progression rate where the top uniques just provide the last piece of the puzzle, these uniques are literally 75% of your entire character's substance. You are a Bringer of Rain character, or a Shavronne's character, or Soul Taker and so on. The game has become all about these individually insane unique items rather than them complimenting existing builds.

This seems starkly contrary to the original vision and promises back when the game was young. I have always felt that the constant influx of new uniques was a slippery slope that didn't do the game any favors, but I'm particularly disappointed to find that the game's main selling point - its build diversity and depth of character customization - is being increasingly focused onto these unique items in a way that just diminishes the whole thing and makes it so that playing without these items is like playing the game on trial mode where only the most rudimentary options are available.

I play PoE on and off, coming back with every 4-month race or whenever the mood strikes me. Every time I return to this game, I'm a little less thrilled to play because I see that ten new unique items have been added, half of which are just better and rarer and more radically different than what was around last time I played. It feels more and more like one of those games where you can never catch up if you weren't there all along to keep up with the gear mudflation, and it feels more and more like one of those games that are played on the rich people's premises because everything caters to them.

PoE has lost touch with its roots and with what it originally tried to be, having chosen instead to delve into this negative habit of just churning out increasingly stupid and overpowered uniques - and making them so rare that you're statistically all but guaranteed never to find one yourself - that it just feels like the whole game revolves exclusively around these items and the tiny minority of players who can get them.

Honestly BoR is mostly good for 3 reasons:

1). it provides melee with access to an effective 6 link offensively(blind is nice, but not really important as it can be easily utilized via flame totems anyway)

2). It provides a large sum of block, allowing Dual wield builds to have high block chance(there literally aren't enough nodes on the tree for DW to have high block otherwise)

3). Bonus Phys damage



Bonus phys damage can be gotten reasonably from Abyssus(the extra damage taken is plenty of managable if you build for good phys mitigation) which provides a cheaper alternative to 3. #1 ultimately comes down to getting a 6-link. #2 is where there is really no option other then BoR.


I'd like to see a chestpiece created that gives block chance(and designed/drop rates set so it end up as maybe a 1-2 Ex items rather then BoR v2.0). This would provide another way for Dual wield builds to get some extra block chance that does not indirectly buff the BoR build(as a BoR won't let you also wear said chestpiece). This hypothetical unique chestpiece along with an abyssus could make a poor-man's BoR.

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Jakabov a écrit :

I think PoE is creating a serious problem. More and more absurdly powerful uniques are being introduced, and it's clear that GGG intend to gate the advanced builds behind build-enabling uniques. These builds either straight up require a certain unique item, or are made so much more powerful by this unique that playing the build without it is just depressing and unappealing.

Hey, at least they are starting to do things like Solaris Lorica- cheapo versions of build enabling unqiues- I really hope that item is a sign of things to come.

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The game doesn't have a smooth progression rate where the top uniques just provide the last piece of the puzzle, these uniques are literally 75% of your entire character's substance. You are a Bringer of Rain character, or a Shavronne's character, or Soul Taker and so on. The game has become all about these individually insane unique items rather than them complimenting existing builds.

To be fair I think Soultaker is less build defining- It's just a fourth option for the quintessential question "how do I sustain the mana necessary for my attack"- for any given build in the absence of a soultaker the three conventional solutions are still there(clarity/mana regen , increased max mana+mana leech, or blood magic your primary attack).

Shavronne is absolutely build defining, but fortunately we just got a cheapo version of it that makes the build work without it.

BoR is an odd beast- I'm not sure I agree it's build defining being that the main thing is does is create a cheaper alternative to true GG gear- it's basically the *relatively* poor man's GG item- almost as good as a GG helm + strong 6L link chestpiece, but comes at a fraction of the price. Well there is certainly the matter of block chance alternatives I raised in the first part of my post- but I have high hopes for improvement.

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This seems starkly contrary to the original vision and promises back when the game was young. I have always felt that the constant influx of new uniques was a slippery slope that didn't do the game any favors, but I'm particularly disappointed to find that the game's main selling point - its build diversity and depth of character customization - is being increasingly focused onto these unique items in a way that just diminishes the whole thing and makes it so that playing without these items is like playing the game on trial mode where only the most rudimentary options are available.

Well I certainly agree that any build defining uniques should have a cheap version available.

That said I really don't consider things like BoR and soultaker as build-enabling. both are chiefly good because they give high numbers and good stats, not because they really change game mechanics of the game.

To me build-enabling items are things live shavronnes, Pillar of the Caged God, Facebreakers, Berek's Grip, Berek's Respite, Oro's Sacrifice, and Crown of Eyes: Things that literally make a build work on a fundamental level(by having unique mechanics or changing the rules)- not something that just means with the same build your numbers will be a bit higher and you have a few more passive points free.

There definitely are Some build enablers which I feel are too hard to acquire- But I think in a lot of cases people use build-enabling and BiS Unique item interchangably.

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I play PoE on and off, coming back with every 4-month race or whenever the mood strikes me. Every time I return to this game, I'm a little less thrilled to play because I see that ten new unique items have been added, half of which are just better and rarer and more radically different than what was around last time I played.

Really? the only godly uniques I can think of having come out in the last 8 months or so are Crown of Eyes, Soultaker, Bino's, and Bringer of Rain(by the way bringer is least deserving of a play on this list). And many of the old godly uniques such as shavronnes and Kaoms have been nerfed(in the 4 month leagues anyway).

I don't feel like there's been all that much power creep- Old uniques like kaoms, shavronnes, and Aegis remain the most sought after in the game, and even lower value ones such as Alpha's Howl, Rathpith Globe, Facebreakers, and Maligaros remain core parts of so many builds.

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It feels more and more like one of those games where you can never catch up if you weren't there all along to keep up with the gear mudflation, and it feels more and more like one of those games that are played on the rich people's premises because everything caters to them.

Well certainly true in standard- that place is a dump. But 4 month leagues are a pretty level playing field.

"

PoE has lost touch with its roots and with what it originally tried to be, having chosen instead to delve into this negative habit of just churning out increasingly stupid and overpowered uniques - and making them so rare that you're statistically all but guaranteed never to find one yourself - that it just feels like the whole game revolves exclusively around these items and the tiny minority of players who can get them.

Again I don't agree with your claim of power creep. The only unique in the last 6 months I think was really a mistake on GGG's part is Crown of eyes(note I love the concept and think it's an interesting design, but it's effects are way too strong).

Crown of Eyes and Aegis both need a nerf- and honestly I think there's a pretty good chance they get it in the content patch is 11 days. That said, on average most uniques recently have been balanced. Yes a lot more of them are competitive then back in the day when they just pumped out leveling uniques no one cared about- but not many really push the envelope on the established power level of items.

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tinko92 a écrit :

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ampdecay a écrit :

seriously the blind is too OP with multistrike.

If it's OP then it would be used as a gem a lot more than it's used now (I've never seen anyone using the gem version of Blind).

Nothing OP here, just useful.

I use Blind and Knockback on an evasion Reave Ranger I have, blind is so underrated!

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ampdecay a écrit :

I use Blind and Knockback on an evasion Reave Ranger I have, blind is so underrated!

Good, you're the first one I've ever seen then.

You must have some 400+ DPS weapon to compensate the DPS lost in 2 links.

I would absolutely never link Blind on my main skill, I never found it to be something very useful for myself, but if it is for someone, there are other ways to blind enemies without wasting main skill links.

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tinko92 a écrit :

I would absolutely never link Blind on my main skill, I never found it to be something very useful for myself, but if it is for someone, there are other ways to blind enemies without wasting main skill links.

Blind isn't an end-game build support really.

It's probably not the support you plan for to use in your 5/6-link mapping build that has all the items, talents and gems you want.

It's the support you use to get there when RNG kicks you in the balls and you don't have the mana to support more expensive supports (blind is only 110%) or the defenses to comfortably grind for better gear (blind reduces damage taken from attacks by 75% effectively as long as you're hitting them).

In BoR's case it's certainly not the best possible support that could go there, but as far as a bonus 6th support for a physical attack I'd say it's one of the better ones. After all, you're not giving up a link for it. Not even when compared to a 6-link.

Blind is an amazingly powerful support, it just doesn't make the numbers go higher or stack up with top-end gear.