The secret to balancing evasion

...he uses spells. You don't know me at all. I had a 8XX es 5l that Slayer gave me when he quit standard for anarchy. I used it for maybe a month (MFing) and just let it gather dust in my stash. My buddy asked me why I still had it, as if I'll ever play ES and he had a point.

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Tinko92 a écrit :

3k is indeed nothing, but see the example above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J87VTlTc-PI

See, making them look like idiots.

Are you gonna tell me that this guy did invest much in armor ? I'm not buying that lol.
Plus he is running grace.
I don't know what his armor value is, but it is certainly huge.
So yes, at this point armor has no more drawback because of the way it works ( so yes, at this point evasion cannot compete, but that's quite a big investment + a combination that I find OP, but that part is quite personnal ).
And he is obviously using the flask combo :))

I should have specifically stated that it was in a case like the one we are debating over from the start = an average armor user, not heavily speced in it.

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Tinko92 a écrit :

You don't have to facetank monsters, ranged physical attacks are even more dangerous.

Avian reicht are a pain in the *** =(.
Wiht Ondar's Guile, you can tank many ranged monster before being in a real danger tbh.

And the "problem" I was referring to is the trivialisation of a high armor value from this combination, I consider it a problem because ( but one more time, that's my opinion of course ) I find it OP. Honestly, getting from 9k armor to 45k like this is ridiculous =/.

I wouldn't be using armour if I couldn't get to the high amount of it, I'd take evasion any day, as it would be extremely better.

"The only thing where I see evasion to be better than armour, is to get lucky and not getting hit by heavy attacks that would kill any armour build."

At least for melee players.

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tinko92 a écrit :

I wouldn't be using armour if I couldn't get to the high amount of it, I'd take evasion any day, as it would be extremely better.

"The only thing where I see evasion to be better than armour, is to get lucky and not getting hit by heavy attacks that would kill any armour build."

At least for melee players.

You could still get a high AR value out of one single jade/granite or iron skin.
Evasion is good when you can leech between hit, because one big hit goes through your defence, and when the second strikes your buffer has been replenished basically.

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Fruz a écrit :

You could still get a high AR value out of one single jade/granite or iron skin.
Evasion is good when you can leech between hit, because one big hit goes through your defence, and when the second strikes your buffer has been replenished basically.

One flask gives more than 10k armour if you run Determination and you cross 10k armour. It's not a small amount.

It would gimp survivability even more, keep in mind that flask combo is great when you desync in a bunch of monsters and is a great asset for non-kaoms users ("lower" life players).

From my experience in game, evasion is better for rangers and armour for melee, all good.

double post

Desync is on the forum also :D

Jesus god dammit, I don't know why this has to be said so many times, you dont have to heavily spec into armor to get huge amounts of it. You can get 30k + values for armor with only a few thousand armour from gear, and running the jade/granite, IR + grace/determination combo. If you have a few armor nodes on the tree and/or higher armor on your gear, it gets even higher

If you are saying this is not possible Fruz, then you don't know what you are talking about. Else you are conveniently ignoring it. Either is not helpful.

To get a useful amount of evasion, you have to heavily spec into it, both in terms of gear and the passive tree. For armor, you don't. End of story

you don't have to heavily spec in it, you just have to run 2 60% auras from what you say LOL.

The fact is : if you don't have a high/really high amount of armour, it's gonna be useless against huge hits, thx god jade flasks exist now, but this is on a timer, it's not permanent. Plus you actually cannot do that without IR, that makes one keystone you can't do without.


You don't know anything about evasion dude, you're embarrassing yourself.
You don't need any heavy investment from the tree, since your dext already does the job ( stacking both would be more efficient of course, and to be honest it's easily doable also ), and if you run grace ( because you don't actually need to ) you barelly need gear ( and you can very easily stack both here also ).
You really do seem to have a problem with those basic mechanisms ....


How can I make it simpler ? evasion needs mostly ... dext.
Armor needs .... determination ... IR + grace ... double flask combo .... and gear ( all of that according to you of course, thank you for that lol ).
w00t.

Now you can be of bad faith, or try to understand those basics.

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Fruz a écrit :

you don't have to heavily spec in it, you just have to run 2 60% auras from what you say LOL.

The fact is : if you don't have a high/really high amount of armour, it's gonna be useless against huge hits, thx god jade flasks exist now, but this is on a timer, it's not permanent. Plus you actually cannot do that without IR, that makes one keystone you can't do without.


You don't know anything about evasion dude, you're embarrassing yourself.
You don't need any heavy investment from the tree, since your dext already does the job ( stacking both would be more efficient of course, and to be honest it's easily doable also ), and if you run grace ( because you don't actually need to ) you barelly need gear ( and you can very easily stack both here also ).
You really do seem to have a problem with those basic mechanisms ....


How can I make it simpler ? evasion needs mostly ... dext.
Armor needs .... determination ... IR + grace ... double flask combo .... and gear ( all of that according to you of course, thank you for that lol ).
w00t.

Now you can be of bad faith, or try to understand those basics.

Evasion is absolute garbage without max block, armor can exist without using max block (and it can still use a max block build). Try running end game evasion without block and see how far you get; aka nowhere. If you're running any kind of melee evasion build, you absolutely have to have block, most likely maxed out by the time you are running 74+ maps.

This is all on top of evasion having to get a much bigger life buffer than armor, because you pretty much have 0 damage mitigation. Curses like Enfeeble aren't nearly as good for you on a consistent hit for hit basis, and evasion builds can't abuse CWDT nearly as much as an armor based build can.


Also, if you're really trying to argue that evasion is more point efficient than Iron Reflexes, I'm just gonna straight say it. You're either trolling, or you're really just bad at the game. IR was the most utilized passive in the 1 week Nemesis Race for a reason. Because it is insanely point efficient and allows you to utilize garbage level gear and still progress, something Evasion or a Pure Armor build does not (even though they scale slightly better into late game than an IR build does).

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allbusiness a écrit :

Try running end game evasion without block and see how far you get

I have 42% block chance, far from max block, and ... well yeah I'm mapping without dying at a nice pace.

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allbusiness a écrit :

Also, if you're really trying to argue that evasion is more point efficient than Iron Reflexes, I'm just gonna straight say it. You're either trolling, or you're really just bad at the game.

Noone said that ...
I could say "You're either trolling, or you're really just bad at reading", see what I did there ?

I was just pointing out the fact that against big hits, armor is nothing if you don't invest quite a lot in it ( 2 auras IS a lot, plus the rest ... ), where with ~8k evasion, you already have ~50% effective evade chance in mid maps, and this will always have the same efficient, against any kind of hit.


No damage mitigation ? You can easily run 4~5 end charges if not more.
The buffer needs to be a little higher because it will matter against large hit than armor doesn't reduce much if you are not using double pots or having a heavily armoured oriented build, and even with double post, it reduces the really large dangerous hits somewhat, but far less than smaller ones.
So no, evasion doesn't need a much bigger buffer.

evasion builds cannot use CwDT ? yes they can, do you play evasion ? ... The threshold is reached easily when you get hit ( because let's face it, you get hit, even by little shits, and they can potentially reach your CwDT threshold ).
The only difference between CwDT used with evasion or armor is that it's often more efficient to choose slightly higher threshold with evasion.