Less RNG in Socket Crafting Please!

"
Undon3 a écrit :

I'm as old school as it gets at my 35 age and playing games since ZX 81/Spectrum/C64 etc. I had CPU's from almost all Intel generations, since 80286, and constantly played RPGs when I could find them. I did things the hard way since forever, including typing the code of the game each time I powered on my no storage ZX81 "computer".


Yeah I started a little after you with a 386 DX40 but it was a great introduction to games like Ultima Underworld and the many of the AD&D games. Also played some of the early Xeen series and the Wizardry games too.

But still man....what do you guys want? I keep hearing that it's bad RNG but fixed price farming materials for crafting, (ala Age of Empires), would be a much poorer option than our current pure RNG.

Anyone with reasonable expectations knows that a 5L/6L isn't gonna come easy but at least we have a real chance to get it cheap. To me thats a preferable solution than farming and saving 1500 fusings for a 6L.
OB: BazzVone - 83 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI and minions
CB: BazzVfourteen - 80 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI
CB: BazzVtwo - 73 Dual Spork Totem/LS Templar
CB: BazzVseven - 76 Lightning Strike Mara
CB: BazzVfive - 78 Lightning Strike Mara
Dernière édition par BazzV5#2961, le 5 avr. 2013 à 08:36:25
"
TremorAcePV a écrit :
"
_Seze_ a écrit :
There is no crafting in poe, pure blind luck. bad system. time spent\reward ratio is low. Game for no lifers, normal ppl should stay away.


I'm glad someone gets it.

This game is for the type of people who enjoy grinding for hours for that one unique they really want, whether to buy it, or for it to drop (Koam's comes to mind).

Other people trying to make the game cater to them will only be disappointed. Whether GGG listens to these type of people or not, they will leave, eventually. It is in their nature.


First you complain about my "assumptions" which are simply my subjective experience, THEN you go on to threaten trolling, and NOW you make the mother of all assumptions here.

What is this? I don't even....

1/10, try harder...

And also, I played Diablo 2 a LOT back in the day (I'm old enough to actually say that btw unlike others), and it was nowhere NEAR this RNG reliant, it is however similar enough to MedianXL sans some of the GOOD aspects, and with some of the BAD aspects enhanced via the gem system.

Then "gamblers heart"

Apologies, a lot of gamblers end up selling their internal organs for cash, I find this dripping with irony lol

Anyways, my "insults" are born of many years of watching games run themselves into walls by choosing bad mechanics and trying to pull the old "It's not a skinner box but..." routine on players, and honestly we as gamers, have seen and experienced better. So I do apologize, but this faux nostalgia for what was rubbish about gaming, from gamers that weren't even old enough to appreciate the good and that bad at those times and in those era's. Just needs to go fkn away, for good.
I will post a suggestion that will make everyone happy soon in another topic. Stay tuned :D

"
Loki421 a écrit :
"
Wittgenstein a écrit :
The orbs are extra pulls on the slot machine, that's it.
With this line you point out the fundamental problem with the orb system.

Issue 1:

Its in the delivery method of the "slot machine".

Would you rather:

A: Run around strategically using a hand crafted virtual avatar to kill monsters with different abilities, having a blast and sometimes have a digital prize fall out.

B: Stick coins(orbs) in a box(armor) and sometimes have a digital prize fall out.

Point being if we wanted to play slot machines we'd all be sitting in a casino somewhere. We play video games because the delivery method of the RNG is more interactive and enjoyable.

Issue 2:

Specifically the gem sockets should not be the target of RNG because they fundamentally affect how you play the game. I feel like better (see more rare) armor should make you stronger defensively and offensively stat wise, but not effect which skills you get to use.

Imagine a world where every head peace of gear always dropped with 3 slots, body peaces always had 5, glove always had 2, etc. The game could remain just as fun and still be very easily balanced. More powerful rare and unique armor could still exist because of the other stats it offered. Now add back in the socket orbs with the RNG removed as a fun bit of crafting element. Would it trivialize the price on those specific orbs? Yeah probably, but then again no one trades ID or Portal scrolls either, yet they are still there for the iconic bits and fun.


Would you rather:

a. kill a million mobs and hope for the best
-or-
b. farm and craft specific gear

If the answer is (b) than this is not the game for you.

I enjoy the RNG - I enjoy getting crap (at some level) because it makes the times when I (quite literally) hit the jackpot all the sweeter.

Again I see no difference between killing a million mobs and rolling a million orbs, two means to the same end that both may result in jack squat. That is what all ARPG's are when you boil them down, and I enjoy ARPG's, so I do not understand the anger over the orbs. I think the anger stems from players assuming the orbs are "crafting" when they aren't crafting at all, players realize they were wrong in their assumption over the purpose of the orbs and then they become angry.
"the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG

Happy hunting/fishing
"
Torin a écrit :
I will post a suggestion that will make everyone happy soon in another topic. Stay tuned :D


please do not make multiple threads on the same topic.
"the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG

Happy hunting/fishing
"
Wittgenstein a écrit :

Again I see no difference between killing a million mobs and rolling a million orbs, two means to the same end that both may result in jack squat.


Difference is u will never get million orbs by killing million mobs. Time spent\reward ratio is extremely low.

I play bf3 with my clan, 46 ppl, we're all 25+ years old with jobs\girlfriends and we can't be asked to spend our life ingame to have some fun, we gather in the evening and go troll some bf3 servers for couple of hours a night tops.

I tried to get them to play PoE as well cause I played d2 during my school\university years, but they all quit cause this is a nolifer game(d2 WAS different, u still got good drops(mephisto\baal\diablo runs) even by playing 2-3 hours couple days a week), u have to forgo real life to be successful in PoE. Just look at any stramer of PoE out there, jesus ducking christ what a bunch of nerds, proly never lifted anything heavier then cup of tea in their life.

This is the main reason I nolifed 3 weeks in march to lvlup my char and get high end 5L weapon\armor, yet now i still don't see me getting anything better cause 99% of yellows drop are pure garbage. Ans I try to do 4-5 maps per evening.

This economy\crafting system looks good on paper but when it comes to playing it... hell no...
IGN: Seze
"
Wittgenstein a écrit :
"
Loki421 a écrit :
"
Wittgenstein a écrit :
The orbs are extra pulls on the slot machine, that's it.
With this line you point out the fundamental problem with the orb system.

Issue 1:

Its in the delivery method of the "slot machine".

Would you rather:

A: Run around strategically using a hand crafted virtual avatar to kill monsters with different abilities, having a blast and sometimes have a digital prize fall out.

B: Stick coins(orbs) in a box(armor) and sometimes have a digital prize fall out.

Point being if we wanted to play slot machines we'd all be sitting in a casino somewhere. We play video games because the delivery method of the RNG is more interactive and enjoyable.

Issue 2:

Specifically the gem sockets should not be the target of RNG because they fundamentally affect how you play the game. I feel like better (see more rare) armor should make you stronger defensively and offensively stat wise, but not effect which skills you get to use.

Imagine a world where every head peace of gear always dropped with 3 slots, body peaces always had 5, glove always had 2, etc. The game could remain just as fun and still be very easily balanced. More powerful rare and unique armor could still exist because of the other stats it offered. Now add back in the socket orbs with the RNG removed as a fun bit of crafting element. Would it trivialize the price on those specific orbs? Yeah probably, but then again no one trades ID or Portal scrolls either, yet they are still there for the iconic bits and fun.


Would you rather:

a. kill a million mobs and hope for the best
-or-
b. farm and craft specific gear

If the answer is (b) than this is not the game for you.

I enjoy the RNG - I enjoy getting crap (at some level) because it makes the times when I (quite literally) hit the jackpot all the sweeter.

Again I see no difference between killing a million mobs and rolling a million orbs, two means to the same end that both may result in jack squat. That is what all ARPG's are when you boil them down, and I enjoy ARPG's, so I do not understand the anger over the orbs. I think the anger stems from players assuming the orbs are "crafting" when they aren't crafting at all, players realize they were wrong in their assumption over the purpose of the orbs and then they become angry.


Fixed that for you.

Turning one thing into another, via whatever method, is a form of crafting. It's a limited and somewhat flawed system, but it's a rudimentary crafting. Either it gets expanded and hopefully away from the RNG, or they (GGG) will of course be simply taking a potentially great game that caters to a wide audience, and instead shoots themselves in the proverbial by going after a VERY specific niche audience, which would be honestly a shame as it would show they're not making the best possible game, but instead a game that doesn't even try and tackle the issues of the game they based their initial thematic design on.

ARPG'S are great.

Korean grinders, are dog muck.

Why does this game feel like it takes far too much from the latter, and not enough of the good of the former, all the while ignoring the good ideas of more modern games outside of their gem and passive system? which as many agree, are the absolute STRONGEST aspects of the game currently in terms of gameplay aspects.

Hardcore = plays on the highest intended difficulty with a deep skill in and understanding of the game

Hardcore does NOT = Grinds endlessly against the RNG because he has no life.

This is a common misconception. And I've no idea what it got so misinterpreted.
Dernière édition par Wittgenstein#0994, le 5 avr. 2013 à 09:26:31
please don't edit my posts.. turning one thing into another isn't crafting, when I boil water and it becomes steam I am not crafting steam. If I toss a plate at the wall I am not crafting.. pieces.

Here is my question. Since you brought up "Korean grinders"

Is killing a million mobs and getting less than optimal results a "Korean grinder" if so, than that should be an issue as well, but nobody is mentioning that, they are focusing on the orbs. The orbs are not crafting, think of it as a "do over" on a kill item you received, that's all it is.
"the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG

Happy hunting/fishing
"
_Seze_ a écrit :
"
Wittgenstein a écrit :

Again I see no difference between killing a million mobs and rolling a million orbs, two means to the same end that both may result in jack squat.


Difference is u will never get million orbs by killing million mobs. Time spent\reward ratio is extremely low.

I play bf3 with my clan, 46 ppl, we're all 25+ years old with jobs\girlfriends and we can't be asked to spend our life ingame to have some fun, we gather in the evening and go troll some bf3 servers for couple of hours a night tops.

I tried to get them to play PoE as well cause I played d2 during my school\university years, but they all quit cause this is a nolifer game(d2 WAS different, u still got good drops(mephisto\baal\diablo runs) even by playing 2-3 hours couple days a week), u have to forgo real life to be successful in PoE. Just look at any stramer of PoE out there, jesus ducking christ what a bunch of nerds, proly never lifted anything heavier then cup of tea in their life.

This is the main reason I nolifed 3 weeks in march to lvlup my char and get high end 5L weapon\armor, yet now i still don't see me getting anything better cause 99% of yellows drop are pure garbage. Ans I try to do 4-5 maps per evening.

This economy\crafting system looks good on paper but when it comes to playing it... hell no...


First bolded word:

If you use the term "troll" like that, you're not actually meaning "troll" you're meaning to muck about and have fun, not to deliberately irritate others. If you do, then kindly uninstall your BF3 game, you're part of a worrying problem.

second bolded sentence:

Really? you had to try forcefully put the "do you even lift" meme in this? talk about completely undermining the arguments...

I do agree in some regards though as there's an underlying bit of decent feedback hidden under the tripe, drops ARE garbage, the games not optimized enough to be running groups not even counting desynch, and crafting and economy are a nightmare.

"
_Seze_ a écrit :
"
Wittgenstein a écrit :

Again I see no difference between killing a million mobs and rolling a million orbs, two means to the same end that both may result in jack squat.


Difference is u will never get million orbs by killing million mobs. Time spent\reward ratio is extremely low.

I play bf3 with my clan, 46 ppl, we're all 25+ years old with jobs\girlfriends and we can't be asked to spend our life ingame to have some fun, we gather in the evening and go troll some bf3 servers for couple of hours a night tops.

I tried to get them to play PoE as well cause I played d2 during my school\university years, but they all quit cause this is a nolifer game(d2 WAS different, u still got good drops(mephisto\baal\diablo runs) even by playing 2-3 hours couple days a week), u have to forgo real life to be successful in PoE. Just look at any stramer of PoE out there, jesus ducking christ what a bunch of nerds, proly never lifted anything heavier then cup of tea in their life.

This is the main reason I nolifed 3 weeks in march to lvlup my char and get high end 5L weapon\armor, yet now i still don't see me getting anything better cause 99% of yellows drop are pure garbage. Ans I try to do 4-5 maps per evening.

This economy\crafting system looks good on paper but when it comes to playing it... hell no...


I've played for over two years, I have a full time job a wife and a child, I do not play the game for hours at a time. Match your expectations to the game - don't force the game to meet your expectations.

Also, please don't insult other players. only warning.
"the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG

Happy hunting/fishing

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