POE - The only ARPG with no loot: this needs to change

Pretty much.

Dammit, I should have posted this here:

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NemoJr a écrit :

Just the other day, I was thinking that PoE is probably the only ARPG (or similar game) I've played where "gold find" (IIQ) is more important than "magic find" (IIR).

I don't remember seeing normal (i.e. non-bot) players value currency over actual item drops in a "loot game" before, ever. There's indeed something wrong with that.

I'll comment further if/when I can be arsed to skim through the whole thread. But I like the idea behind the OP; it's definitely an important issue.

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NemoJr a écrit :

Just the other day, I was thinking that PoE is probably the only ARPG (or similar game) I've played where "gold find" (IIQ) is more important than "magic find" (IIR).

I don't remember seeing normal (i.e. non-bot) players value currency over actual item drops in a "loot game" before, ever. There's indeed something wrong with that.

For this challenge league IIQ isn't needed as coming back from a full room clearing incursion run is pretty much a huge loot pinata. Mostly white/blue/yellow trash but nonetheless it's definitely up there in terms of single player loot drops so I can't imagine needing any more IIQ. IIR has been the subject of many threads and whether it makes any real difference or not on the quality of the drops. We usually have some IIR but going to the lengths of having 300%+ more IIR doesn't really feel like the quality of drops is noticeably better than say 30% to 50% increased IIQ.

But as the OP stated running Burial Chambers maps ad infinitum farming for The Doctor cards is not very productive. Repetitively running the same map over and over quickly becomes boring and is more work than fun. But PoE has always been this way with 99.99% trash loot drops in the endgame. GGG deliberately has tuned drops this way to push more of us into trading more. We'll never ever know how many get pushed out of PoE entirely as in "I just spent 3 hours running the same map and got 0 of The Doctor cards to drop so I quit this shit!".

Even though PoE has always had this in the endgame that doesn't validate GGG's reasons for doing so. The OP is right in that GGG needs to come up with other endgame mechanics to generate the sought after "better gear" and feel like we're still progressing gear wise. The "fun to play" is gone when 100s of maps are run with nothing of better gear to show for the time and effort.

Once you buy your gear... it's pretty much just running maps for the sake of currency. Most upgrades will be multiple exalts worth for GG gear, so most people won't bother.

I see so many people saying making rare gear better on average will solve this. It won’t. The issue here is trade. SSF players don’t have this “problem” because they don’t trade. When you trade you get gear that’s past the 99.9th percentile in utility to you. If better gear is easier to farm, you’ll still be getting 99.9th percentile items because the markets will respond to the supply increase by lowering prices. Your chances of getting an upgrade from drops will remain minuscule.

The two obvious fixes are make trading harder or making good items rarer. Neither of these options would be good for the population of the game so GGG will need to be creative to find a good solution, assuming they even want to.

Why does SSF have no loot issue?

Because there's no loot issue.

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matto77 a écrit :

First of all if you like farming the same burial grounds map 24/7 looking for divination cards that's fine, that option should still be there - but there needs to be a viable different way to play. I tried to shape my map and do this strategy, and after 2 hours of no div card drops I rage quit and went looking for other ARPG's.

Translation:

You set a completely unrealistic expectation for what would happen and got upset instead of getting informed.



I'll be generous and assume 2.5 minute clears. So lets round that up to 50 maps in 2 hours. And you rage quit for zero doctors after that small number of maps?

FYI, with a set of very high increased quantity gear, you can expect 1 doctor card to drop about every 200 maps.

With odds that low, it would not be unusual to get a stretch of 500 maps with no drops.

Putting it so little effort and expecting one of the rarest things in the game to drop for you is just stupid.

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ArtCrusade a écrit :

Why does SSF have no loot issue?

Because there's no loot issue.

You REALLY believe that?

When you can play for 5 hours straight and feel like all you got was currency to show for it, because every thing that drops is complete doo doo....something is wrong.

People that play SSF are kidding them selves. You're handicapping your self AND putting up with terrible drops.

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Draegnarrr a écrit :

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DoubleU a écrit :

Silly/antiquated affixes:
Light Radius, Thorns, and Reduced Attribute Requirements.

They aren't silly or antiquated, they are there to reduce the chances of an item being "good" and perform that role perfectly.

The game could be improved if they were removed but all I think would happen really is the tier of item we consider acceptable would move up one without any real changes.

I'd prefer it if some item drops were semi-curated, for example bosses would drop items that were more likely to roll high life, or weapons with a high phys roll etc. Originally this was the specific point of rares, but is lost so quickly that the distinctions become irrelevant.

Removing them, but proportionally reducing the quantity of items that drop would go a long way.

There is such a thing as TOO much loot and PoE, as much as I love it, has that problem. Adjusting the drop rates of items (not uniques/maps) down but removing junk affixes would be really nice.

I'd go one step further and remove a few other really undesirable affixes in addition to Light Radius, Thorns, and Reduced Attribute Requirements.

Add:

Stun threshold (buff the passives for that)

Stun duration (same as above)

Life/mana gained on kill (values have always been too low to matter, change the Hired Killer/Thrill Killer/Soul Siphon passives to grant a % of total life/mana on kill)

The stun recovery suffix (buff the hybrid prefix's stun recovery a little to compensate)

Chance to Shock/Ignite/Freeze (Better left to Passives/Uniques/Crit)

Life gained on hit from attacks (or at the very least buff that affix so there's a compelling reason to have it on an item)

Maybe the Chance to Bleed/Poison affixes as well. Or at least buff them so they're more desirable:

of Hemorrhaging - 25% chance to cause Bleeding on hit and 61-80% increased damage with bleeding

of Virulence 13-18% increased poison duration and 31-35% increased poison damage.

of Death 30% chance to poison on hit, and 8-10% chance to inflict an additional poison when poisoning an enemy

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Draegnarrr a écrit :

"

DoubleU a écrit :

Silly/antiquated affixes:
Light Radius, Thorns, and Reduced Attribute Requirements.

They aren't silly or antiquated, they are there to reduce the chances of an item being "good" and perform that role perfectly.

The game could be improved if they were removed but all I think would happen really is the tier of item we consider acceptable would move up one without any real changes.

I'd prefer it if some item drops were semi-curated, for example bosses would drop items that were more likely to roll high life, or weapons with a high phys roll etc. Originally this was the specific point of rares, but is lost so quickly that the distinctions become irrelevant.

Removing them, but proportionally reducing the quantity of items that drop would go a long way.

There is such a thing as TOO much loot and PoE, as much as I love it, has that problem. Adjusting the drop rates of items (not uniques/maps) down but removing junk affixes would be really nice.

I'd go one step further and remove a few other really undesirable affixes in addition to Light Radius, Thorns, and Reduced Attribute Requirements.

Add:

Stun threshold (buff the passives for that)

Stun duration (same as above)

Life/mana gained on kill (values have always been too low to matter, change the Hired Killer/Thrill Killer/Soul Siphon passives to grant a % of total life/mana on kill)

The stun recovery suffix (buff the hybrid prefix's stun recovery a little to compensate)

Chance to Shock/Ignite/Freeze (Better left to Passives/Uniques/Crit)

Life gained on hit from attacks (or at the very least buff that affix so there's a compelling reason to have it on an item)

Maybe the Chance to Bleed/Poison affixes as well. Or at least buff them so they're more desirable:

of Hemorrhaging - 25% chance to cause Bleeding on hit and 61-80% increased damage with bleeding

of Virulence 13-18% increased poison duration and 31-35% increased poison damage.

of Death 30% chance to poison on hit, and 8-10% chance to inflict an additional poison when poisoning an enemy

If less items with fewer trashy affixes dropped, we might ID more stuff instead of letting it all rot.