POE - The only ARPG with no loot: this needs to change

"

Shagsbeard a écrit :

Drops aren't "balanced for trade". Your expectations of them are set by trade. Making do with what you get is what SFF is about... it's not about making characters that reduce the game to a boring click-fest.

The fact that you think it's "the same game" shows you don't even begin to understand why we play it that way.

Ah that new player smell, when the delusion of finding something good in the game was still in the "it could happen" range and everything was fresh and exciting. POE is indeed an amazing game full of possibility in those days.

Fast forward 5 years the last 2 (almost) purely in SSF when you know the delusion for what it is. An illusion exile... the reward in the "risk vs reward" equation is actually what Dominus is trying to tell you!

We all think he's saying "THIS WORLD is an illusion exile"

When what he's really saying is:

"RISK REWARD is an illusion exile"

Once you know through experience how seldom you'll feel rewarded the game starts to break your heart.

"

Prizy a écrit :

Way too much misinformation here.

This entire thread needs a caveat: "POE - The only ARPG with no loot: IF YOU ARE IMPATIENT."

People who are claiming that you can't play specific builds on SSF are clueless.

I mean there are people who've played SSF for 2 years now who still have never dropped many items. Ask around in 773 if you don't believe me. Not even slow players either guys who are linking triple watchers eyes and Starforges half way through the league.

OFC part of the problem is that clear speeders power farm for months and think their drop rates are indicative of the normal players experience with the game.

Another part of the problem is that the drop rates and likelihood to roll a good rare are depressed by the speed at which 1% plays the game making it even harder for a normal player who doesn't turn the game into a Job to actually glean enjoyment from the game.

Ofc you think every item is obtainable in SSF, you're either completely inexperienced and making an assumption that it must be true. OR you're someone who plays the game like a job.

"

Oblitus a écrit :

"

grepman a écrit :

nonsense. look at ssf players with experience play the game for 100 hours. see what they loot. take random 100 hours of raizqt play in ssf and see how much shit he dropped

I don't care about their drop. I can see what drops for me. It's 99.999% trash.

"

grepman a écrit :

this must be an item from the last temp league. temp league items are a whole different story. my point was that the more unique drops, the more they devalue their prices, which for some reason you're trying to deny. it wasnt specifically about shavs.

And it is good. If I can't get something playing for several hundreds of hours, it may as well don't exist at all.

Awesome attitude. Another instant gratification camper eh?

"

Oblitus a écrit :

Ah, now we have another name for cancer that is killing PoE.

PoE is ARPG. Not trading simulator. And I don't want to touch trading simulator even with a very long stick.

Poe is an arpg with online economy. That is something the devs stated right in the beginning in 2012.
You chose to ignore the economy part. Your choice, but you're complaining. Nowhere did they write that it will be a solo single player arpg. On the contrary, they made sure to announce this loud and clear. You can't have it both ways- accept the 'arpg' part and complain to remove the economy part. all or nothing here.

"

SSF. Is. Totallly. Broken. Because. Of. People. Like. You.

ssf is not "totally broken" at all. you can do almost all non-tip-of-iceberg (shaper/uber atziri/uber elder) content easy in ssf, on your first character. you can do all other content using specific builds and drops you get from your first character.

you get showered in drops. and in flashback leagues you basically swim in drops. last flashback ssfhc I played (pre-incursion) I got a shroud, the gull and some amazing rares, in barely scratching mid tier maps (I then died in a stupid way)

if you think ssf is broken because after you play 100 hours you cant find an upgrade, Im surprised you hung around poe this long time

because when one plays ssf, they find upgrades all the time into maps - since they cant buy 1c items for all slots that will carry them into endgame. and obviously after you get great gear, it becomes really tough to find upgrades

"

Oblitus a écrit :

"

Prizy a écrit :

If you actually want to play a full 2-3 months

And can play 10 hours a day, that is.

Wrong.

It's luck based. Could get something useful in 10 minutes or 10 hours. Some leagues are better than others for SSF. Since Bestiary we've been given some pretty good SSF gems.

People need to stop blaming the game for not having time in their own lives. I feel like ARPG loot-grinder players are the only people that do this.

"

alhazred70 a écrit :

I mean there are people who've played SSF for 2 years now who still have never dropped many items. Ask around in 773 if you don't believe me. Not even slow players either guys who are linking triple watchers eyes and Starforges half way through the league.

OFC part of the problem is that clear speeders power farm for months and think their drop rates are indicative of the normal players experience with the game.

Another part of the problem is that the drop rates and likelihood to roll a good rare are depressed by the speed at which 1% plays the game making it even harder for a normal player who doesn't turn the game into a Job to actually glean enjoyment from the game.

Ofc you think every item is obtainable in SSF, you're either completely inexperienced and making an assumption that it must be true. OR you're someone who plays the game like a job.

I'm confused as to what you are expecting here. You want SSF to have enough loot so that it will "die" around the same time as trade league? SSF is a more difficult version of the game. It's intended for more advanced players OR extremely patient players. If you aren't in one of these groups than you should be playing trade league. It's really that simple.

Trade league is already fucked by players consuming the content too quickly (no matter what it is). I don't want that same fucking plague on SSF.

SSF is for people who are willing to accept the existing drop rates so that when something good DOES drop it feels awesome. There is a difference between chancing a ToH and just buying one. Same with every item in this game.

SSF requires multiple builds. You need an MF speed farmer and a bosser at a minimum. Why is this a bad thing? Why must someone player's reave champion with no quant/rarity get the same amount as a player that emphasizes MF, etc?

The arguments make no sense.

Also please define "normal player". I can't have a decent discussion on this topic with vague words like "normal"? What does that mean exactly?

"

Prizy a écrit :

People need to stop blaming the game for not having time in their own lives. I feel like ARPG loot-grinder players are the only people that do this.

people do it in other games nowadays too. basically if they dont get gratified every x time, they complain that their time has been 'wasted'. its like they want some excitement per hour stuff. most of these people wouldnt last in era of no internet and being stuck on a level for 10+ hours, theyd yell 'mu timez iz important' and then go back to posting on social media ;)

but its definitely moreso in grinding games because they literally are about time investment.

"

grepman a écrit :

"

Prizy a écrit :

People need to stop blaming the game for not having time in their own lives. I feel like ARPG loot-grinder players are the only people that do this.

people do it in other games nowadays too. basically if they dont get gratified every x time, they complain that their time has been 'wasted'. its like they want some excitement per hour stuff. most of these people wouldnt last in era of no internet and being stuck on a level for 10+ hours, theyd yell 'mu timez iz important' and then go back to posting on social media ;)

but its definitely moreso in grinding games because they literally are about time investment.

Lol. You know, I am old enough to remember times without Internet. And early internet times when SaS was not meta. It was golden age, you know, when "bad design" was not considered "difficulty" and "RNG gating" was not considered "content."

You know, that is very definition of the game - you are exchanging time for excitement. I have time. A lot of time, as you can see by my achievement counter. But PoE is just a massive black hole, that consumes any amount of time. And the game is... Well, boring. And I am saying it as one who loves old versions of Lineage II - and it is a real grindfest. But it is time gating, not RNG gating. You always can estimate your gains. And it has trading and economy which are enjoyable to use! It happens that one unofficial server is starting at the same day with Delve, and it is no-brainer to ditch Delve for it.

"

Oblitus a écrit :

Lol. You know, I am old enough to remember times without Internet.

I wasnt calling you out specifically.

"

It was golden age, you know, when "bad design" was not considered "difficulty" and "RNG gating" was not considered "content."

most people nowadays cant cope with 'difficulty' of old games without either looking for guides online or just bypassing the point theyre stuck, in to play another game. hence modern games plummeting in difficulty because catering to lowest common denominator makes the most $ and doesnt anger them. back in the day you had to travel to a store and physically buy another game. so you sucked it up and got past the difficult points

poe would be a very different game if people werent allowed to look at others builds.

"

You know, that is very definition of the game - you are exchanging time for excitement.

you are exchanging time in your life for everything, not just games. the problem that frustration and difficulty or 'losing' rng rolls is part of it, and excitement is presented in SMALL doses that CONTRAST with the difficult part. modern gamers to refuse to accept this and think they have to win every dice roll, or that they should be rewarded even for 'losing' ones. it doesn't work like that.

grinding games are exactly about grind

"

But it is time gating, not RNG gating.

RNG is tied into time played directly. tons of ssf players who play a ton get great loot. its not that hard nowadays. the more you play, the less variance you have

look, if you were complaining about loot and map drops in 2013 SSF, I at least could understand.
I dont understand this in 2018. unless you're talking about getting perfect items or very specific, ultra rare uniques that are drop/chance only, I dont see your point, sorry

"

grepman a écrit :

"

Prizy a écrit :

People need to stop blaming the game for not having time in their own lives. I feel like ARPG loot-grinder players are the only people that do this.

people do it in other games nowadays too. basically if they dont get gratified every x time, they complain that their time has been 'wasted'. its like they want some excitement per hour stuff. most of these people wouldnt last in era of no internet and being stuck on a level for 10+ hours, theyd yell 'mu timez iz important' and then go back to posting on social media ;)

but its definitely moreso in grinding games because they literally are about time investment.

Looks at old Battle Toads cartridge in storage box....

*shudders*