Please don't be like blizzard

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avantasian#4928 a écrit :

Monk quitting the game and not playing another class because his 8.000.000 DPS SKILL got nerfed = theory


I'm back to POE2 if GGG decides to balance classes = not theory, objectively true

Mhm, mhm. Ok, sure mister. So... why don't YOU play another class, but instead quit?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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avantasian#4928 a écrit :

Monk quitting the game and not playing another class because his 8.000.000 DPS SKILL got nerfed = theory


I'm back to POE2 if GGG decides to balance classes = not theory, objectively true

Mhm, mhm. Ok, sure mister. So... why don't YOU play another class, but instead quit?

You don't understand simple premises.

The method of balancing the game only at the beginning of each season has NEVER WORKED in any action RPG.

This type of problem became more noticeable with D4 when devs decided to balance it during the season and a noisy minority complained.

When this minority complained (because they cared) the game had around 400 to 500 thousand players.

When blizzard decided not to touch classes during seasons, the game started to stagnate in all subsequent seasons, no complaints about patches? yes no complaints about patches, but for the reason that players don't care about the game anymore.

Basically you have to choose:

a) Players complaining about patches but playing the game
b) Silence, not because theres no balance patch but because players are not playing the game (POE2 down from 500k to 100k players)

I've kind of accepted that balance will be completely off until we get all classes/skills/support/spirit gems and their related Unique items, and even there, the game will never be balanced. There will always be skills that end up being better than others, but I hope that by release, every skill end up being more than minimally "viable".

Right now, there are some obvious offenders (i.e. the skills hitting for 10-20x more than others) that could be nerfed by a fair amount, and they would still end up on top, but we can't ask for a really balanced experience during EA.

If I were playing these meta/best skills, I honestly wouldn't mind if my damage was lowered, but I would much prefer if GGG increased the underperforming skills damage instead.

Thing is, here again, it's obvious that while many skills currently suck (due to lack of support through gems, passives and/or items), they might get better once we get the new classes spirit gems and items.

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avantasian#4928 a écrit :

You don't understand simple premises.

The method of balancing the game only at the beginning of each season has NEVER WORKED in any action RPG.

This type of problem became more noticeable with D4 when devs decided to balance it during the season and a noisy minority complained.

When this minority complained (because they cared) the game had around 400 to 500 thousand players.

When blizzard decided not to touch classes during seasons, the game started to stagnate in all subsequent seasons, no complaints about patches? yes no complaints about patches, but for the reason that players don't care about the game anymore.

Basically you have to choose:

a) Players complaining about patches but playing the game
b) Silence, not because theres no balance patch but because players are not playing the game (POE2 down from 500k to 100k players)

You are literally wrong, proven by GGG history. They do balance changes with each league and it worked. Why they do, how they tested it - you can look up everything about it, but stop lying.

You contradict yourself. You want GGG to balance now, but when the D4 devs balanced all over the place (not with each fresh season) ppl complained. Get your facts right.
And ppl don't play D4 anymore because they "patched/balanced in the wrong circle", ppl don't play the game because the game is bad. It's that simple.
Don't make a fool out of yourself believing otherwise.

Again, it seems like you cannot comprehend - that PoE2 has TWO MONTHS IN 100k instead of the 500k at EA start is totally normal. Look up every single league in the past years of PoE. That's how it is. That's what GGG is expecting, only you cannot understand it.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

You are literally wrong, proven by GGG history. They do balance changes with each league and it worked. Why they do, how they tested it - you can look up everything about it, but stop lying.

You contradict yourself. You want GGG to balance now, but when the D4 devs balanced all over the place (not with each fresh season) ppl complained. Get your facts right.
And ppl don't play D4 anymore because they "patched/balanced in the wrong circle", ppl don't play the game because the game is bad. It's that simple.
Don't make a fool out of yourself believing otherwise.

Again, it seems like you cannot comprehend - that PoE2 has TWO MONTHS IN 100k instead of the 500k at EA start is totally normal. Look up every single league in the past years of PoE. That's how it is. That's what GGG is expecting, only you cannot understand it.

You are not considering fundamental factors such as:
-This genre has no competition
-POE1's 50,000 player retention doesn't happen for the reasons you think it does
-Heavy hand on nerfs and buffs are different from soft nerfs and soft buffs

We haven't had a league yet

You people confused a beta test with a league.

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avantasian#4928 a écrit :

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

You are literally wrong, proven by GGG history. They do balance changes with each league and it worked. Why they do, how they tested it - you can look up everything about it, but stop lying.

You contradict yourself. You want GGG to balance now, but when the D4 devs balanced all over the place (not with each fresh season) ppl complained. Get your facts right.
And ppl don't play D4 anymore because they "patched/balanced in the wrong circle", ppl don't play the game because the game is bad. It's that simple.
Don't make a fool out of yourself believing otherwise.

Again, it seems like you cannot comprehend - that PoE2 has TWO MONTHS IN 100k instead of the 500k at EA start is totally normal. Look up every single league in the past years of PoE. That's how it is. That's what GGG is expecting, only you cannot understand it.

You are not considering fundamental factors such as:
-This genre has no competition
-POE1's 50,000 player retention doesn't happen for the reasons you think it does
-Heavy hand on nerfs and buffs are different from soft nerfs and soft buffs

Listen, you not understanding how and why GGG does things how they do it - does not make you right.

The genre doesn't have a huge competition, not NO competition, but even if we pretend that there is literally no competition in the genre itself - there are other games with a similar or different genre that are still competing for our time. Not every ARPG-enjoy plays only ARPGs. So that argument you made goes nowhere.

Aha, so... what is the reason for the player retention?

Sure, and you are able to know what a soft/hard nerf is and what impact it will have? Hm, they technically soft-nerfed "Cast on X" gems, but the rage out and impact for some was worse than a hard-nerf. Ever wondered why they only fix game-breaking bugs in a league and don't nerf stuff in any form? Because it's not even close to predictable how hard a change will impact the game.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Aha, so... what is the reason for the player retention?

-Lack of significant competition
-One league is different from other, you can't equally measure them

If you try to balance classes, and players abandon the game, it could be due to the bad mechanics of the respective league and not due the action of balancing classes.

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avantasian#4928 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Aha, so... what is the reason for the player retention?

-Lack of significant competition
-One league is different from other, you can't equally measure them

If you try to balance classes, and players abandon the game, it could be due to the bad mechanics of the respective league and not due the action of balancing classes.

Again, the "competition" you talk about is not the main reason why ppl come back league for league, year for year. The game is good - new content releases - ppl come back.
Why is basically nobody playing D4? They release new content too? Right? And PoE is only indirect competition because it's way harder to get into, a main reason most ppl don't played it past "Brutus" (Act 1). So, why are they not coming back?

Sure, leagues are different, but the main game stays the same, but you understand that they get feedback from every single league and most of the community so they know WHY ppl left thus making it possible to measure them.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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avantasian#4928 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Aha, so... what is the reason for the player retention?

-Lack of significant competition
-One league is different from other, you can't equally measure them

If you try to balance classes, and players abandon the game, it could be due to the bad mechanics of the respective league and not due the action of balancing classes.

Again, the "competition" you talk about is not the main reason why ppl come back league for league, year for year. The game is good - new content releases - ppl come back.
Why is basically nobody playing D4? They release new content too? Right? And PoE is only indirect competition because it's way harder to get into, a main reason most ppl don't played it past "Brutus" (Act 1). So, why are they not coming back?

Sure, leagues are different, but the main game stays the same, but you understand that they get feedback from every single league and most of the community so they know WHY ppl left thus making it possible to measure them.

The game is good, that's a fact.

The game has no significant competition is another fact.

Both can coexist, occur simultaneously.

Yes, the game has a certain player retention, it can happen because the game is good and it can also happen because the player doesn't have option B.