A broad P2W definition in law would paint premium stash tabs P2W
" Funnily enough, I said the same thing earlier, if in less words. Freemium games require one of two currencies from their players - currency, i.e. money, or time. You don't get to be a "freeloader" supporting the game if you're not IN the game. If you want to get a highly developed, constantly supported and updated product for 100% absolutely zero-dollars-forever free, then you get to devote your time to that product rather than your money. You're there to boost player concurrency and retention counts, help fill out the population and improve the experience for everybody as a whole, but make no mistake - you're the replaceable cog in the machine here. There's an endless stream of Freeloaders willing to replace you if you decide to Take A Stand and speak with your wallet. This is also why "pay for convenience" or "pay to reduce chug" is not PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO - it's simply exchanging one of the game's required currencies for the other. There's a well-known concept in freemium games that the first in-game purchase is the hardest one to convince people to do. It's why introductory bundles and One-Time-Only Sweet Deals are so common - once you've spent money once, made the decision to become a customer rather than a freeloader, it's easier for you to justify that decision again and you become more likely to indulge in future purchases. Not likely - just 'more' likely than you otherwise might have been. Paying to reduce the frustration inherent in an otherwise slow system is not ideal - ideally you want your players to give you money because they really like your product and are happy to support you in exchange for something cool. Thus why Grinding Gear gets a lot less money from its usual whales these days - the Tencent acquisition knocked them almost entirely out of that "Happy to support you" category. However, this thread and many similar ones across all sorts of games is full of examples of people who're actively proud to've never spent a single dime on freemium games, and who actively advise everyone else to do the same. People who say "The idiots who're buying stuff are total losers! Loogit how smart I am for letting them pay for my fun!" Nemo's post - which is mostly quite good, if again too focused on the stupid fucking stash tab issue - states outright that the game relies on a small percentage of its players paying a disproportionate amount of money and covering the costs of hundreds of other players, if not thousands. Any given whale is attended by a flock of many thousands of freeloaders who get to play the game scott-free because the whale in question poured vastly more money into the game than most anyone considers reasonable. Leaving aside the issue of whether or not this is fair, let me put this forward - why should the whale's investment be worthless? Why should the investment of people who're paying for thousands of their fellow players' good times be restricted solely to things nobody wants? PEEing to DUBBLEYOO doesn't feel good. It's not good for a given game because it makes the freeloaders feel left out and maligned, and in Western markets at least it makes the whales feel like they haven't earned what they have. Paying to reduce time crunch, however, is fine - especially since the whales who're being expected to pay for everybody else are the ones with jobs that dominate their daily lives and leave little time for play. They're the ones that need the most help with converting a freemium game's Time currency into Money currency - and if you insist on not giving it to them then your game starves to death. Are premium tabs PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO? By the strictest of definitions that people keep wanting to hurl around out here, yes. Fine, there you go. I'm fully aware that is the only line out of this post anyone will read (looking at you, Whale), but again - this isn't the discussion we should be having. The discussion we should be having is whether or not Grinding Gear's cosmetic pricing is still fair and ethical (spoilers: the answer is not the unequivocal 'yes' everyone thinks it is), and secondarily whether or not stash tabs being a low-level form of PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO actually matters (spoilers: not even slightly). And a discussion the video game industry as a whole should be having is whether the whale-dependent freemium model, however successful it is, is truly fair. because if you're going to ask folks like me to pay the bill for a thousand of my fellow players and not actually get anything for my money? I'm going to ask why you think I should be forced to do that so YOU can play. She/Her
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" i'd rather be freeloader than some one who's seen as a walking atm machine who's sole purpose is to get squeezed from as much money as possible by these companies who use predatory shit like loot boxes as a means to get a quick $ from idiots with more money than brain. and then what do they do with that money? release untested broken leagues that stay broken for half their 3 month lifetime or stay broken even after going into the core game. |
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Heh.
It's so easy, isn't it? Sure, I could just use the normal P2W acronym, but when I screech PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO at the top of my lungs the exact same way everyone else does, making a mockery of their idiocy, all anyone ever does is point out that they don't like me making a mockery of their idiocy. perhaps if you lot didn't scream PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO as loud as you possibly could any time Grinding Gear introduced anything but a cosmetic skin, while simultaneously giving them a free pass on their ludicrous cosmetic prices because you think with your knees instead of your heads. As for you, CAPS? Simple fact of the matter right here - you don't pay? You don't matter. Not as much as a paying customer. If you're going to stand on principle and vow to never offer the developers a single red cent for their work, why should they cater to your requests? Now sure, the game needs its freebooter playerbase to fill the population out, and the freebooters as a whole deserve attention and respect the same way the paying playerbase does. But your single individual opinion is utterly irrelevant to this topic because you've already said you're never going to pay no matter what Grinding Gear does. Considering you've decided to opt out of the game's monetization no matter what, why should the company - or indeed, anyone else - care what you have to say about it? Obviously, I did not opt out of the monetization. Path of Exile was a guilty pleasure of mine for a number of years, and I put enough money in it to pay for more than my fair share of freebooters. The fact that I've largely stood down on that and that Grinding Gear needs to work much harder for my money and my time than they used to should be a lot more worrisome to them than is your penniless ire. Frankly, it should be more worrisome to you too, because if all the whales you scorn as just brainless cash machines disappear? So does your game. Think on that the next time you're slinging insults, ne? She/Her
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" how do you know people are screaming? i think you're kinda stupid aren't you? just because people don't agree with your shit doesn't mean they're screaming and behaving like monkeys, dummy. Dernière édition par CAPSLOCK_ON#7907, le 16 mai 2019 à 13:29:27
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Because a thread which threatens legal action (if without any actual menace to it because none of y'all are lawyers and everybody knows it) if Grinding Gear doesn't stop selling premium stash tabs this very instant isn't a bunch of over-reactionary hogwash, ne?
You're free to disagree with me. You're also free to be wrong. She/Her
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" i don't want ggg to stop selling anything. i just want to make it clear to you whiteknights that stash tabs do indeed count as p2w |
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Why?
What's the victory there? "I don't want anything to actually change, I just want a small subset of people who generally fund my game for me to feel bad for no reason." What the hell sense does that make? Why even have this whole ridiculous argument if you don't care about anything coming of it? She/Her
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" it just annoys me that you people preach about POE having 0 P2W when it actually does have P2W elements |
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" Nope. You don't win anything if you have more tabs. |
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" here comes the [Removed by Support] "u don't win anything xD" replies again, go back some pages and read the comments me and others said about the meaning of P2W and why stash tabs can be considered p2w Dernière édition par Clint#0000, le 16 mai 2019 à 15:18:34
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