A broad P2W definition in law would paint premium stash tabs P2W

"winning"? No. The guy without the tabs could have been enjoying himself in other ways while you sold those items. He won.

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Kiss_Me_Quick a écrit :

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DarthSki44 a écrit :

That's absurd. Mearly having the tabs means nothing. You could fill it with shit, price items terrible, not be available to sell, and it goes on and on.

You make it sound like tabs are a magic pot of gold that you put itmes in and currency just flows out.

Even then if you amass wealth, if you dont know how to use the currency, on what items, or their relative worth, it pointless.

Then after all that it doesnt actually help you in-game. You still have to know what the fuck you are doing.

I sold something 400-1,000 items per day - only with stash tabs.

Now think about how many items would I have been able to sell without them; it takes ~ 14-18 hours of only listing and delisting for all these items without tabs.

How can ever a KissMeQuick without stash tabs compete with the paying KissMeQuick? He can't.

And that's totally a fair point.

But how about this - You make more in game (when active) in a day than I do an entire league. You have knowledge and in-depth understanding of the game and markets that I lack. We may both have tabs but its laughable to compare are earnings side to side. And it's not like I'm some random who thinks he gets it all and has never ran a map. I've beaten every major boss in game and have multiple leagues under my belt.

Sure it's an edge that comes with a price tag, but people with no tabs have easily surpassed my bests multiple times over so its not the tabs defining my success or lack thereof.

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Shagsbeard a écrit :

"winning"? No. The guy without the tabs could have been enjoying himself in other ways while you sold those items. He won.

That's right! And the third guy who didn't play at all won the most because spending time on computer games is automatically losing in life - that's a fact! Great posts as always, Shags!

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SeCKSEgai a écrit :

And that's totally a fair point.

But how about this - You make more in game (when active) in a day than I do an entire league. You have knowledge and in-depth understanding of the game and markets that I lack. We may both have tabs but its laughable to compare are earnings side to side. And it's not like I'm some random who thinks he gets it all and has never ran a map. I've beaten every major boss in game and have multiple leagues under my belt.

Sure it's an edge that comes with a price tag, but people with no tabs have easily surpassed my bests multiple times over so its not the tabs defining my success or lack thereof.

I agree and nobody here has stated stash tabs as being an automatic instant slam on others.

The same concept is in the mentioned "true" pay to win games - they only give you an advantage over others and generally you're not able to beat your opponent while having a stroke.

I think I've chewed on the topic enough now (:

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Kiss_Me_Quick a écrit :

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Shagsbeard a écrit :

"winning"? No. The guy without the tabs could have been enjoying himself in other ways while you sold those items. He won.

That's right! And the third guy who didn't play at all won the most because spending time on computer games is automatically losing in life - that's a fact! Great posts as always, Shags!

and the 4th guy running dozens of bot accounts for RMT purposes is winning at everything

"it's absurd you call it p2w because I dont use my PREMIUM tabs for sale"
"pick less junk and while at it spend more time thinking what do you want to pick PoE is the best!"

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Kiss_Me_Quick a écrit :

I cannot classify something as less pay to win or more pay to win - it's still pay to win.

This is the sort of attitude that lets EA get away with straight-up theft.

Of fucking course there are degrees of PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO. You lot have been arguing for days now that literally every possible means of monetizing a game is PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO - that anything at all which can be construed as giving an advantage, however ephemeral, means that you have PEE'd in order to DUBBLEYOO.

Do you honestly think that a bloody stash tab is as predatory a business practice as, say...literally anything EA does? Or the entirety of Destiny's monetization scheme? or, for that matter, Grinding Gear charging players nearly fifty dollars for one bloody armor skin in a game that still touts itself as having Ethical Affordable Microtransactions?

This intransigent, head-in-the-sand NEED you people feel to get everyone to admit that premium tabs are PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO and as such the company that sells them/everyone who owns them are evil vicious horrific soul-swallowing devils is actively harmful to identifying and dealing with actual predatory behaviors. Grinding Gear should NOT be getting a free pass on its cosmetic MTX pricing these days, but they are because you people can't get the stupid goddamned premium tab thing out of your heads long enough to say "hey, wait a damn minute here!"

The hell are you guys doing that for?

This thread is pure comedy gold! Please let it go on forever! :)

Regardless of a stance on the stash tabs, we thankfully haven't reached a point where the fanbase isn't afraid to criticize, no matter how big the franchise or beloved the ip.

Whether it be red shirt dude and his earnest response to the thought of Diablo moving to mobile devices (microtranactions galore), buggy as hell Bethesda not only hyping up a poorly produced product, then failing to deliver on its merchandise, (whether it be the dark rum or canvas bag) - to EA and its poorly received attempts to over monetize its products in lockboxes and other microtransactions.

I guess it is a tad silly to make a fuss since gamers in general tend to agree when it really matters anyway.

Yep. THat's why it's not really a question of whether or not it's P2W (which it is), but what kinds of P2W we consider acceptable. I doubt many people have a huge issue with GGG selling tabs as a way to monetize an otherwise F2P game, especially to people who don't care about cosmetics in any case.

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Xystre a écrit :

of course it's pay to win..

then again there's several people here with thousands of dollars invested and they think the game should stay """"hard"""" when they can just pay for stashes rather than investing time earning them in game somehow.

but hey the game should stay clueless and """"hard"""" cuz DiAbLO 2 experience imrite?


but "MuH dAdDi gGg OnLi gEtS mOni fRoM StAsHeS" really? they earn more than only from stashes sweetie, the microtransaction sets, weapons, pets, wings and even they sell you rain effects, chairs and whatever else they do for hideouts.. (reminds me of activision selling you a red dot in CoD for $1 LOL)

ppl who invested thousands of bucks in this game are desperate becuz the news got out about GGG , greed and how they hinder your progress, ppl are leaving in droves
So the whale spenders are desperate to keep their game afloat to justify their purchases and attack everyone on forum who doesnt agree with ggg cash grab scheme
Why all the gear in game looks like garbage yet mtx looks good?
Cant have both good looking gear in game and in mtx?
CASH GRAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!