Why is it so hard to 6 link? Why is the probability so low?

Yeah, I don't know what part of my post you don't understand to warrant repeating yourself; I realise that using the recipe is more inefficient than chancing, I *GET* that and probably all the other folk that used the recipe do too. I *still* prefer to grind with gradual guaranteed gains than chance which usually results in nothing gained.

Besides, aren't you profiting from people who "can't do maths?", well, now people have only two choices: buy items pre-6 linked, or do it *exactly* the same way you do. Maybe that's why you're not too keen on people guaranteeing it through a recipe since you'd hope that people would just throw currency at the items you're making rather than the random number generator?

Well, I'm now more likely to throw currency at the RNG machine and play with 4L/5L for a league more often than not, but maybe there are people who can't be bothered with all of that and just buy the items ready to go, I don't know.

I just know if I had the choice to 6L without chance getting in the way, I'd take that choice every time because that's just the way I prefer to play. Going forward, it just means that every league I play I'm basically making 5L setup with the right stats or buying a trash 6L depending on whether the stats I need outweigh the socket links I need.

It will ALWAYS be cheaper to buy something rather than make it yourself... or else people would be making stuff to sell you for a profit. The only system where that works is one where it's an utter nuisance to craft stuff and no on really wants to do it. Hey. Wait. That's Synthesis!

"

engelik a écrit :

This is a question for the devs, and to check other players experience.

I think it's far to say that for the average player, trying to 6link an item it's probably the most expensive crafting they'll ever do. Yeah, I know that fossil and synthesis crafting, but that is for those insane, best in-game items. That extra 5 % of defense/power that few can dream to achieve.
6 linked items I would argue that is pretty much something every player more of less plans for.
I play casually, I'm not looking to min-max everything or be the most efficient, but to enjoy the game and experience challenging content. And the few times I tried to 6 link items I just give up out of frustration. This season I sunk all the currency I had, weeks worth of loot, to try to 6-link an item (chest). And nothing. Played a couple more weeks, buy more fusings, try again, and nothing.
So yeah, I just stopped playing since the game just was causing me frustration. No visible progression was made over those weeks, and without the 6 link I could not tackle harder challenges.

Is this the purpose of the low odds? To frustrate the player?

I get that there is a lot of grinding in POE, this is by design, but most of it feels rewarding. It is balanced so that the low odds of something happening give an equivalent high power boost/reward.

6 links it's more like a "checkmark" for most builds, some not even working with 5 links.

6 linking an item is so frustrating that most players won't even try it, and general recommendation is to just buy a 6 linked item and go from there instead of trying to 6 link on yourself.

Why is this? Why must we go outside of the game mechanics and to a item selling website to get something that is craftable, just too frustrating to do so?

And do you as a player enjoy 6 linking items? Do you feel it's rewarding, that you achieved the effort you put in?

If you greatly increase 6-link chance, then Jeweller's Orb and Orb of Fusing would became useless trash. 6-link is considered to be more a luxury, rather than neccessity. After all, you can slow all content even with 4-link with meta build.

For me it also feels like they fiddled with the 6link RNG since all the new quality craft stuff came.

I cant 6link shit anymore since betrayal league, just getting the 6links from div cards, chests or random drops.

I wish they would just give the 6link recipe to depth 200, 1500 fusings for 6 linking is a lot but at least fair, while 5000 fusings and no 6link is not fair.

OK, so I just finished reading the whole thread, and one thing really sticks out: A lot of people, including the OP are using the word 'need' instead of the word 'want'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite vocal that GGG is needlessly nasty with their RNG and gating decisions, and I don't believe anyone gains much by having such high 'difficulty' in getting a six link. I don't think it is necessary for a healthy economy, I don't think it aids overall player retention, and I don't think it adds any enjoyment to the majority of players.

But, it has helped my well-being a lot to realise that I don't want to use a build that requires a 6 link. I don't want to plan around the ridiculous RNG. As such, I don't really want to do end game content. The cost benefit analysis is, like a lot of people are realising, too much of a 'F you' to creative/experimental or casual players.

I do really wish that GGG would change their attitude, but I don't need them to. Instead, I suggest thinking about the game as 2 separate games. The first is to level 90 or so, where progression is smoother, the grind is less noticeable, and player choice is wider. This game is fun for me.

The second game is from level 90 onwards, where the content is waaay more repetitive, the rewards for time spent are diminishing rapidly, and the content gets exponentially harder: both to reach/find and to get past, which leads players to think they need a 6 link.

Practically, this leads to some suggestions:

- In PoB, make 2 builds. One is optimised for 5 links, and only to level 90. The other is to level 95-100 and has a wider budget for gear, and can include 6 links. Play the first build in real life, and play the second build in your head. You'll save months off your life, and unless you really enjoy min/maxing, you won't lose too much in opportunity costs.
- When reading build guides, make the estimated cost of the guide your first and most important consideration.
- perform whatever mental adjustments you need to consider 6 links as an unneeded but pleasant surprise, but not a goal worthy of your time.

LoL @ "This is a question for the devs" considering they just about totally ignore this site.

Unless SSF you're wasting your time 6L unless over 20% quality stuff. Just sell fuse to the gambling addicts and buy 6L you want. I never 6L like first 3 years and had dozens of them all traded for.

Zero frustration zero carpel tunnel clicking 1000s of times.

Aa an added bonus you can usually get colors you want too for "free" so you can sell all chroms too.

When I first posted this, I actually had some hope of seeing some change here, I mostly just found threads about people complaining about X number of fusings used, but none questioning the logic behind it.

Digging now a bit deeper, there seems to exist some posts that talk about it now and then, pretty much since the beginning, and constantly people over the years quitting the game because of it.

2012 post, where Chris first "addresses" the issue (before seasons or the 1500 recipe, still took years for a recipe to come along.):
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/48468/page/1
This causes an issue, because something that was balanced for long months/years play was not adjusted for three months seasonal content. This makes pretty much impossible for non "fulltime" players to accumulate this ridiculous amount of currency during a season.

Not only that, GGG is aware of the math behind it, and the huge variance that such low probability causes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3mo3ol/psa_expedition_probability_statistics_101_the/

quoting from here:
https://www.pcinvasion.com/path-of-exile-betrayal-interview/3/
"It’s like if someone says they haven’t won the lottery even though they’ve been playing it a lot. If we let everyone win the lottery, then that devalues money completely."

Chris does share the view of some users in this post, that a 6-L is "winning" the lottery, that doing otherwise would break the economy.

Here's the rub though. Lottery is "fun" because an extremely low investment can cause an extremely high reward. (in poe we can see this in using an orb of chance on a base for an amazing unique item)
very low risk > very high reward.

In POE, you need to win the lottery to "progress", Good luck trying to deep delve or fight ubers without 6L. And it's not a common drop so investment it's not cheap. Not to mention that you can get a worse item than what you had (5L to 2L) so it's not like you can do it one by one, the risk is too high.

Quoting my old math teacher:
"Lottery is a tax for people that are bad at math"

So for me, it's time to move on. There are a lot of other games that reward skill and time invested instead of luck. I'm sad to find out that POE it's not one of them.

"

engelik a écrit :

So for me, it's time to move on. There are a lot of other games that reward skill and time invested instead of luck. I'm sad to find out that POE it's not one of them.

How about making this thread worth something and post the name of 3 of those other games.

"

Mythreindeer a écrit :

How about making this thread worth something and post the name of 3 of those other games.

That's a bit unfair, I believe me and other users raised some valid points in this post, that last post was just me digging deeper into the issue and verifying that GGG is not only aware of the issue (both this and trade if you check the interview) but actively defending as a "feature not a bug" in classic programmer talk.

I know this is probably baiting, but I'll give you some samples in the vague hope that you are honestly asking and a bit tired of POE, searching for something new:

"I like to hone my skillz and a dark theme"
dark souls 1-3 - if you got the pc for it, go right for the 3rd, really polished, good replayability with NG+ and different builds that play completely differently.
Sekiro is out now, I haven't played it yet, but the reviews are good.

"I really like story and my actions to have consequences"
Witcher 3

"I like that random factor and different builds/paths every run"
Hand of fate
Risk of rain

"I like to compete"
League of Legends
Dota 2

"I really like to click things"
Cookie clicker

"I like exploring"
Witcher 3
Terraria
Minecraft

"I like playing the odds"
Blackjack
Hearthstone
Poker

"I like offline/board game stuff"
DnD The classic
I like story:
Tales of Arabian Nights
Once upon a time
I like randomness and building a system:
Dominion
I like to play alone
Mage Knight

"I really like the isometric view"
D3 - yeah it was broken at launch, but a lot of it is fixed now, and it still has one of the best feeling combat systems.
Torchlight 2 torchlight frontiers coming soon
Grim dawn

"But I really like Poe"
Then play Poe. Just because this is a game breaker for me, doesn't mean it is for you.

"None of these games are Poe"
Ofc not. If you want to play Poe play Poe. Every other game will have its differences. All these games have some really cool stuff going for them, but they are not for everyone. My experience and what I enjoy is different from yours.