can we please stop the power creep, already? (or better - reverse it)

lolz @ this thread now.

synthesized items can have up to 3 implicits AND a lab enchant. and people are pretending it's not power creep/that it's ok/complaining about the syndicate (lolwut! what league is this?). 3 implicits and an enchant - 4 affixes. that's like a rare item drop for boot/helm/glove slots.

the ONLY rationalization for the bone helm, two tone boots, spiked/etc gloves was that it provided choice in enchant or implicit.

this is just downright silly now.

Am not sure it's worth fighting, design is beyond full "internet ego wanking".

It's not remotely about facing a challenge. Everything interesting is hard gated. The rest is hours of meaningless hp-bags. It literally became one of the most boring game-play ever. I am not talking about char creation which is interesting, getting there is a chore though and the A (Arpg) should be removed at this stage lol.

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Fruz a écrit :

As I said already, stop playing dumb please.

Like .. fucking seriously.
Did you notice how what I said was for life-based builds ???
Do you know what a pristine fossil is ???
Yeah, obviously going to high ES on helmet will require an Hubris, that's a completely different story already.
Thank you Sherlock.

And still my point stands, if you purely want effective life that's the way to go. If you want evasion then go for that, the common method to go right now since it provides the most defensive measures.
Pure armor is only useful for physical defense, therefore not very high in regard for me, it offers not enough protection overall.

So, therefore it's either hybrid build, ES base with as much life and ES on it as possible, or pure life with evasion base, pick your choice. Armor is the worst one out of the trio at the current state of the game.

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Fruz a écrit :

This is exactly why it is good, because this game is all about progression, and when progression is way too freaking fast compared to what it was already with the exact same content, it hurts the game.

There is no need to add 5 tiers of maps, because it does not matter to mostly fotm broken setups who would crush everything anyway, and on top of that it would even speed the climb to 100 even more.
Did you ever consider this before throwing this out ?
No you didn't, of course you didn't.
Every wondered why delve mobs' level cap at 83 ?

Yes, but the already established line of progression was reverted, not new progression added, hence bad game-design compared to good one. You don't make existing things which have been done for a while - and been fun - different, you add new things attached to that to give a further reason to play on. Your reasoning is backwards.

Also, that was an example, it doesn't matter if you raise the level or the stats only, the sole difference would be a new 'harder' content presented.
Yes, it would raise the speed to climb towards 100, as did many... very many updates in the past already, that fact won't stop. The game is ever so slowly shifting from '100 being the end of all things' towards 'I've reached 100, now it's time to min-max gear further as the main priority' in many cases. The same thing hasn't stopped since... well basically 2.0

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Fruz a écrit :

Power creep is by definition something overdone.
The moment you diminish the importance of already implemented content, it's already overdone.

Your definition is wrong, nothing more to add to this comment.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/power_creep

It's a concept, not a descriptive term for something good or bad.

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Fruz a écrit :

You can kill uber elder with a glass canon if you play perfectly.
And you can kill syndicate members the exact same way if you play perfectly.

If you make 0 mistakes, you can surely take down syndicate members with a min maxed leap slam build.

A lot of game-mechanics in PoE are based on RNG. Yes, you can kill most bosses 99 out of 100 times without an issue if you're a very good player, at try 100 you'll be screwed though because the timing between the different attacks interacting is out of your personal ability to handle, the ability being foresight to know what's coming.

The best example here would be the combination the trap ring spawning while Haku charges up an attack which will hit the inside of the ring. This combination of attacks can't be avoided unless you have a teleporting movement spell, hence you're dead with a glass-cannon, no questions asked there.

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robmafia a écrit :

lolz @ this thread now.

synthesized items can have up to 3 implicits AND a lab enchant. and people are pretending it's not power creep/that it's ok/complaining about the syndicate (lolwut! what league is this?). 3 implicits and an enchant - 4 affixes. that's like a rare item drop for boot/helm/glove slots.

Yes, I have to agree to that, though also: Get one of those 3 implicit items, with 3 implicits that are even worth arguing over. Good luck with that. Getting a good 2 implicit item is far out of reach for the majority of the people playing, 1 is reasonable to achieve.

Yes, players like me (or maybe you) have that ability, though we aren't the 'common' one in PoE. It's the same as having several legacy items stashed away, mirror-tier items in stash and tons of currency around to use. The 'normal' player will most likely kill uber-elder after 2-3 leagues, if ever, most don't even get to the elder. The people we see doing those things are mostly streamers which have a lot of time to play the game and the game-mechanics are like breathing to them. Same going for people who spend a lot of time in-game daily in general.
It quickly deteriorates from there on, soon after you got the ones barely scraping by 36 achievements at the end of the league while working towards them, soon after 24, then those not making it to shaper and then even more being stuck at yellow and red maps.

If you want to say that 'having the top 0,01% of the playerbase achieve several 2 and 3 implicit items during the league' well... then yes, sure, but that isn't remotely the norm, not even after reworking the mechanics, buffing the drops and making it a lot easier to get ilvl 86 top-tier bases to take into consideration using for a single try to synthezize it. Speaking of 3 implicit ones, good luck getting a proper base dropped with half-way decent explicits rolled to make use of, and that times 3 unless you want to make it a further 33% gamble besides rolling the right implicits onto it.

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Mischief67 a écrit :

Am not sure it's worth fighting, design is beyond full "internet ego wanking".

It's not remotely about facing a challenge. Everything interesting is hard gated. The rest is hours of meaningless hp-bags. It literally became one of the most boring game-play ever. I am not talking about char creation which is interesting, getting there is a chore though and the A (Arpg) should be removed at this stage lol.

This.

power creep is good, if it allows "worse" players to see content that they did not before, if at the same time new harder content is added. Well implemented, "worse" players will be always 1-2 tiers behind the current "hardest" content, giving "veterans" something to brag about and the "worse" players something new to experience.


a more positive word for this from the MMO-world is "catch-up mechanic".

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Kulze a écrit :

Yes, I have to agree to that, though also: Get one of those 3 implicit items, with 3 implicits that are even worth arguing over. Good luck with that. Getting a good 2 implicit item is far out of reach for the majority of the people playing, 1 is reasonable to achieve.

congrats on apparently TRYING to miss the point.

1 is power creep.
2?
3?

hurr durr.

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robmafia a écrit :

congrats on apparently TRYING to miss the point.

1 is power creep.
2?
3?

hurr durr.

1 is common, the same as a corruption, just new mods in state of other options. 2 is the start of power-creep actually, so you got it wrong there sadly.

But yes, as UlfgardLeo wrote, it's the respective 'catch-up mechanic'. Just that those don't follow the common principle at PoE, new major content is released every ~2 years, namely 1.0.0, 2.0.0 and 3.0.0. Yes, there were some exceptions, but those provided the major changes in the field.
So, all this 'power-creep is bad' talk won't get us anywhere as it's obvious that GGG prepares for the release of 4.0.0 with implementing several masters on the side to take up the place of the former ones, just with large game-mechanics attached which will be good side-content later on... even if right now those are fairly unbalanced and partly broken still.

They got a game-plan, it's not an optimal one, but it's one anyone can clearly see... at least if they don't close the eyes and just yell 'but what about now?' rather then being patient enough to look forward to the 'masterplan' working out.

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Kulze a écrit :

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robmafia a écrit :

congrats on apparently TRYING to miss the point.

1 is power creep.
2?
3?

hurr durr.

1 is common, the same as a corruption,

...with zero chance of bricking the item.

try again?

edit: lolz @ "catch-up" bs. read the FIRST SENTENCE of this thread. hahahahaahahaha

'it's not power creep, it's power creep!' 'it's not making it easier, it's just making it easier!'

every argument you make solidifies the very point of the thread. again, you are apparently TRYING to miss the point.

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UlfgardLeo a écrit :

power creep is good, if it allows "worse" players to see content that they did not before, if at the same time new harder content is added.

I wouldnt call that "power creep" - rather, a "catch-up" mechanics. Power creep happens, when quantity turns into quality, rendering certain mechanics and playstyles obsolete (like melee, or even mobs' AI).

I've played WoW, and it used "catch up" mechanics a lot, but power creep rarely happened. Yes, numbers grew and grew, but player's relative power to content remained the same, and various mechanics (such as dodge, block, etc) were not allowed to reach absurd numbers due to proper game balancing and scaling with level.

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robmafia a écrit :

...with zero chance of bricking the item.

try again?

edit: lolz @ "catch-up" bs. read the FIRST SENTENCE of this thread. hahahahaahahaha

'it's not power creep, it's power creep!' 'it's not making it easier, it's just making it easier!'

every argument you make solidifies the very point of the thread. again, you are apparently TRYING to miss the point.

Yes, true, you won't brick the item, thought there are other ways implemented to make it hard to obtain.

-First you need to drop the fitting base 3 times for the item you want to synthezize, that's hurdle Nr 1, not a big one.
-One of those bases needs to be ilvl 86, otherwise you'll miss out on a lot of crafting options, that's definitely doable as well.
-All 3 of those items have the exact same T1 mods to ensure the highest possible roll of the table, that one is fairly hard already. Mostly important for 1 fractured mod items
-2 and 3 fractured mod items need to repeat the last step again, the less 'optimal' the roll, the more of a gamble it gets.
-And last but definitely not least, the Implicit modifiers are weighted, since lower tiers are available you can get those, you're not guaranteed to get one of the 'awesome' ones.

So a fair bit of effort has to be invested into crafting the base, not to speak of turning that into a proper item afterwards.
Doing a well-made synthezized item also only means you'll have the counterpart of a non elder/shaper item, usually offering less options to be powerful in comparison to them.

Especially to mention are the missing ability to have any 'supported by' rolls on them, those usually can be the make of break for getting a build from powerful to extreme.

In general the choice to pick an elder/shaper base is for many builds better then taking a respective 3 implicit synthezized item, that goes especially for weapons, the belt (Styg Vise), Chest for life builds (Elder base) and probably some more which I overlooked.
So, synthezized items just offer another layer of building towards the already existing ones.

Sure, you can try and get a full setup made out of triple-implicit items which have 3 good mods, but the base itself already costs probably more then your whole build together, not to speak about rolling on it then.
The other solution is to go and get the rolls yourself, which is extremely time consuming, double-corrupting good uniques in the temple by farming it hard gives you 2-3 corruption attempts per day at least, and while you'll loose several items in the process you still will save time - and therefore currency - compared to farming up the fractured bases + rolling them properly to have the highest chance of producing the wanted implicits.