[3.6] Indigon MjölnerFinder Depth 600+ (Hybrid MOM/CI/Lowlife) (legacy version depth 1500+)

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Dadybear a écrit :

hi , i am lvl 84 atm and the CI version is fun , but sometimes i have some truble with mana ( on some boss or in the mine ) when i cyclone for a long time and i die :'(

what do you think i need to change in my gear for min max the build ?( i all rady try to craft a new shield)

Use some rare boots with resistance so u don't have to use purity of elements, that should free alot of mana, also get the 2% mana/life regen if hit recenty thats ALOT of mana regen also make sure arcane surge is always up, n atm your current enchant on boots is blocking EE so your actually losing dmg u don't want any source of lightning or fire dmg on cyclone this is very important. Also this is a lvl 90 build so keep lvling it should get better mana sustain once u grab most of the mana node.

VERY IMPORTANT TO DROP THAT BOOTS ENCHANT FOR 2% REGEN.

Ye but the probleme with rare boots = "no stun immun" so big mob stun me and i die i think

edit : cyclone = stun immun xDso it s ok

I loveee Discharge from the first day i played Poe, and been theory crafting ever since they nerfed it.
This is the best build ive seen so far. Im working on a crit version, but not sure yet if the damamge output will be as insane as with Mjoljer critless.

With crit version you will never be able to reach 5k + mana, i actaully just come up to 2k.
Idea is to not use volls protection because this will lower your mana even more, but use power charge support in both your cospris as in cast on crit setup in the body armor.
You can reach 100% power charge on crit with the necesarry items.

As of all of your gear is extermly good, you probably are a veteran poe player with alot of experience in the Poe builder, so maybe you can help me out with this questions (not all of them are related to your build directly).


Question 1 :
how does the indigon calculator calc for your legacy vessel with instant leech? what option you need to chose?
I honestly think this build only works well with the legacy flask. Withouth it the damg is not even close, and when you run
out of mana you stop to cyclone, and die because of no leech. Zepris is the only choice to go withouth the legacy vessel in my opinion(heal wont stop directly when you stop cycloning then)


Question 2:
how much % increased spell damg do you reach with 5k mana?


Question 3:
Discharge has a 250ms cooldown, so this means (calculated without any reduction) you can discahrge 4 times a second.
So this would be 4 AS, so most optimal would be 3.9 AS as the sheet explains, so this is all clear.

No one ever talks about the amount of power charges that you need to genereate for the maximum amount of damage.
So maybe i have understoot this completly wrong

-lets take 7 power charges for this example(because you probably have the expansive helmed with +1);
-You can discharge 4 x 7 = 28 power charges a second
-lets say that you use Lycosidae and thus have 100% hit chance;
-you use Mjoljer that has trigger socket lightning spell 'on hit' (which only works when you hit with your attack(cylclone) and not with the triggered spells itself)
-Romiras generates power charges 'on-non critical strike' so cyclone can generate power charges, and the triggered spells, when triggerd by cyclone
-you have atleast 10% change to crit (maybe more while at max power charges) so this means 90% on hit to trigger Romiras
-there is only 1 target lets say shaper (or at the end when only the uber elder is there)
-You discharge

Cyclone:
If you have 4 attacks per second with your cyclone x2 as of the skill spins twice (is this correct?)
you have 8 non-critical strikes per second (In reality this would be 7.2 non-critical strikes due the -10% from crit chance in which you wont get a power charge (8 AS-10% crit = 7.2)

8 non-critical strikes (hits) can generate 7.2 power charges per second.

Discharge:
Your discharge can be cast 4 times a second and always has a 100% chance to hit (because its spel) so this generates 4 power charges a second

Ball lightning:
this one is a little more difficult because the balls tent to hit once every 150ms so 6.66 attacks per second (the balls will expand and will not hit more often, only to multiple targets)

Total:
Total off 17.8 power charges per second, which means 10.2 to short?
So would it not work better with more attack speed on cyclone so you hit more?


Question 4: Offtopic;
Do you know if this is the correct way to calculate MORE multipliers:
-Elemental overload gives you 1.40% = 40% more damg

-And if you for example have 80% 'Effective' crit chance and 200% multiplier does this mean you have:
0.8 x 2 = 1.6 - 1 = 60% more damg?

Question 4.1:
(I didnt set the hit chance in the above sum, because as i understand corretly path of building calculates the % to hit and crit % all together as 'effective crit change' is this correct?


Question 5:
How does increased spell damage VS MORE work exactly..
For example if your discharge (the power charge part) hit for 589 damg, with 7 powercharges = 4123 damg.

If your indigon (for example) gives you a flat 200% increased spell damg, would this be 4123 * 200% = 8246 damg?
While a 80% MORE multiplier would be (4123 x 1.8 = 7421.4)

This would mean that a 200% incrased damg is better then 80% more, and i dont think this is correct.., one of the caluclations is off.

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Wormerveer a écrit :

Q1: When u use legacy vinktar u insta leech so u don't really need the calculator,just calculate how much the 50-60% increase is ( for example my mana cost is 31 so indigon add 17 mana to the mana cost per 60% spell dmg stack) so just just divide your mana pool by the extra mana cost indigon add and multiply it by the indigon 50-60% Inc spell dmg.

MY current char has a mana cost of 31 so each stack will add 17 to the mana cost n gain 60% spell dmg per stack so to find how many stack i can get, i divide my unreserved mana pool of 4600 (don't forget to remove the initial mana cost of the skill 1 time) by 17= 270,588.

Round the number down to 270 so this is the amount of possible stack of indigon i can reach so u multiply the 270 (possible stack ) by the indigon spell dmg (in my case 60%) so 270x60=16200.

So at the very peak my build will reach 16200% Increased spell dmg. All that is only possible with legacy vinktar since u leech your entire mana pool each time.

Q2: The amount of % increased spell dmg u can reach depend not only on ur mana pool but also if u don't use legacy vinktar it will depend on your mana regen n other source of mana gain. Also it depend on ur base mana cost the higher it is the less stack u can get but u will peak faster.

Q3: U cannot always discharge full charges. U can use ball lightning to help for charge generation, inya's boots to gain full power charge, and yes u are correct cyclone hits 2 time per attack but both are calculated 1 time so if u crit both attack will crit.

Q4: i sugguest u use POB it will help alot finding whats the best bewtween EO n crit in many case. And yes POB does mix both together when giving u your effective crit chance.

Q5: increased and More are 2 different things. Increased source are additive and More dmg source are multiplicative.

So lets say u have 50% inc dmg on gear and 60% inc dmg on the tree and 50% more dmg gem and another 30% more dmg on the tree.

This is how the dmg is calculated (lets says base dmg is 100).

100 x (1+.50+.60) x 1.50 x 1.30 = 409.5

OR reffer to https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Stat


If your looking at a crit version i sugguest u don't use discharge because u will be fighting romira ring and the power charge generation won't be very good, i tried everything n so far the current version i playing is the best i found both dmg n defense wise.

Im afraid that your caluclation about the spell % damg is not corrrect in the slightest..or i am thinking about to many factors (well they are facts)

For example:

Indigon has the following mods:
% increased mana cost of skill for each 200 mana spent 'recently'
% increased spell damg for each 200 mana spent 'recently'

So if you spend your entire 4600 mana you get;
4600 mana /200 = 23 times. 23x 17 extra mana (31 cyclone x 57% =17 mana) = 391 + 31 = 422 your new mana cost of you cyclone
4600 mana /200 = 23 times. 23x 60 % spell damg = 1380%

But now you are not spending 31 mana but 422 per cyclone.

And then comes the tricky part, indigon says spend in "recently" so this refers to the past 4 seconds. So in 4 seconds you can reach maximum % extra spell damg with 200 mana spent (you actually are already spending 422 mana in 1 second). And because you use legacy vessel, you have always full mana in this 4 seconds.
Now here im lost in the calculation for the outcome of the % spell damg...


For a crit version im not trying to use Romiras ofcourse, but power charge on crit support in your cospris + bdoy armor, you can get a 100% on this with the supp gem + emblem + Skyforth.
Or you do you think the % power charge on critical strike do not stack? If this is true a crit version is not possible, and i wasted my time.

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Wormerveer a écrit :

Im afraid that your caluclation about the spell % damg is not corrrect in the slightest..or i am thinking about to many factors (well they are facts)

For example:

Indigon has the following mods:
% increased mana cost of skill for each 200 mana spent 'recently'
% increased spell damg for each 200 mana spent 'recently'

So if you spend your entire 4600 mana you get;
4600 mana /200 = 23 times. 23x 17 extra mana (31 cyclone x 57% =17 mana) = 391 + 31 = 422 your new mana cost of you cyclone
4600 mana /200 = 23 times. 23x 60 % spell damg = 1380%

But now you are not spending 31 mana but 422 per cyclone.

And then comes the tricky part, indigon says spend in "recently" so this refers to the past 4 seconds. So in 4 seconds you can reach maximum % extra spell damg with 200 mana spent (you actually are already spending 422 mana in 1 second). And because you use legacy vessel, you have always full mana in this 4 seconds.
Now here im lost in the calculation for the outcome of the % spell damg...


For a crit version im not trying to use Romiras ofcourse, but power charge on crit support in your cospris + bdoy armor, you can get a 100% on this with the supp gem + emblem + Skyforth.
Or you do you think the % power charge on critical strike do not stack? If this is true a crit version is not possible, and i wasted my time.

well if u don't believe me, i can post plenty of screenshot where my mana cost on cyclone reach pass 3K mana. Also if my true INC spell dmg would only be 1300% spell dmg i would never kill uber elder that fast, also i would never be able to reach over 1M discharge tooltip. Again if theory is not enough i can post screenshot.

If u want u can also input 9999 mana regen and 100% leech on the indigon calculator to mimic Vinktar. What u are not getting is that indigon is a ramp up thing i do not spend my mana pool in 1 go every time.

Everytime i spend 200 mana my mana cost goes up by 17 n i gain 60% spell dmg. So at the start i don't get that much stack but the more stack i have the faster i reach the peak. Everytime i cyclone i gain back my entire mana pool, so its not in 1 sec i do cyclone about every .18 sec giving cyclone mechanic.

So if my tooltip mana cost is to reach 3K+ (has it does) this mean that i have way more mana spended in the last 4 sec since the tooltip goes up by 17 each time i spend 200 mana and each stack of 200 mana spend does increase my spell dmg by 60%. This is the exact mechanic of indigon. So if u don't have any mana regen at all u can look at ur mana cost and divide it by 50-60% of u base mana cost and its going to tell u exactly how many stack u have. Yes for other case where legacy vinktar is not used u need to factor regen n leech thats why the calculator tool exist.


Also yes u can gain more then 1 PC per crit if u use multiple source of (gain power charge), but they are not additive so in some case u might get 2 power charge when u crit sometime 0.

Well ofcourse your mana cost on cyclone will get pass 3k, as the cost ramps up really quickly as mentioned.
Didnt say that you spell damg is only 1300%, because my calculation was incomplete.

So its not that i dont beleve you, because the 1 million has to come from somewhere, so if i unerstand correctly the mana increase on indigon doesnt add up?
For example you telling that it will always add + 17 mana to the base(31mana) every 200 mana spend, not like base 31+ 17= 48 mana cost, second time 0.48* 57% = 27.36 + 48 = 75 mana cost?

Wow that sucks alot that power charge on crit % doesnt add up, like 54 from power charge support and 25% from skyforth will not bring you to 79%?
You also think % change to gain up to your maximum power charges wont add up (boots + new ring) ?
If so then there is no discussion on the subject, a crit build with discharge indigon is impossible at the moment, and i wasted my time :/

yes its always 50-60% of ur base mana cost.

Yes with PCOC and inyas boots and ring u can have very good charge generation.

I made that exact build before going crit w/o the chest and it worked really well w/o the new ring, so definetly a indigon cospri's is possible.

here 2 video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJMNnoDsoY4&t=122s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD2gSh-Mm-U

Ah yes nice build! i have seen this one from you before. I like cospris alot more then mjoljer hehe..

But if the %s dont add it is never gonna win from romiras, because you gonna have a 90% (if you crit 10%) change to get a power charge..

Why you actually using vaal pact? Is the 30% leech not enough?

I think even an legacy with 20% would be enough with that amount of damg?

Also ive seen a movie where you using low life, wouldnt this be better? by just using the flask for chaos damg imunity (also gives you fire res) and you can keep the 900 ES armor. This way maybe you can even use grace on life.

i take vaal pact because it double my leech rate because no insta leech anymore. Also Lowlife is better for dmg but CI is better for defense.