"Never pay-to-win" Dishonest Marketing by GGG?

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

I think I can explain where your argument fails. You said "I'm suggesting that all you need to win in this game is 20c". I think there are enjoyable builds people like to play that cost more than 20c. If the premium stash tabs as you say "yield you more income" then those paying players would have bought easier access to a greater range of interesting builds. Gating, hampering or locking non-paying players out of certain builds is an element of a pay-to-win game.

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markww a écrit :

You are just making your own interpretation of pay 2 win to fit your argument.

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innervation a écrit :

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

I think I can explain where your argument fails. You said "I'm suggesting that all you need to win in this game is 20c". I think there are enjoyable builds people like to play that cost more than 20c. If the premium stash tabs as you say "yield you more income" then those paying players would have bought easier access to a greater range of interesting builds. Gating, hampering or locking non-paying players out of certain builds is an element of a pay-to-win game.

Reach 100 first in a 3 month league.
Come in first place in one of the Medallion races.
Or otherwise win a contest GGG run in which they ship a physical prize to your house.

Still no explanations. This is your case to make.

If your argument is that you can get a 30 exalt build online 5% faster...

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markww a écrit :

You are just making your own interpretation of pay 2 win to fit your argument.

A forum shop isn't that hard to maintain. I did it for many leagues prior to GGG sanctioned index for convenience. Can't keep confusing a player achieving their self imposed goals with winning a prize.

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

Is it fair to say "Never Pay to Win" on the new Atlas of Worlds marketing: http://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/AtlasofWorldsFactSheet.jpg

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xxSerpentlordxx a écrit :

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innervation a écrit :

The definition of winning in a discussion of "pay-to-win" is irrelevant...right.

You people should really be more upset over and/or hung up on the fact that top streamers and racers get free stuff showered on them by their fanboys. That has an exponentially bigger impact on early race progress than tabs, and that's something many degrees of difficulty harder to replicate through effort or time on your part in the first week of a league.

Edit:

To make my position more clear, I'm suggesting that all you need to win in this game is 20c, and that having extra stash tabs only yields you more income at a rate (not that high) and a time (after you've gotten to maps) that it doesn't get you to 20 faster than the threshold of it mattering (you only need the gear for mapping). I hope that is coherent enough.

On the flip side, I've still asked for an expressed, detailed series of premises from the pay-to-win camp and haven't gotten them. You need to make this argument clearly, because the optics clearly aren't in favor of it - people buy stash tabs every day, and they don't go rocketing up the ladders. So if it's less obvious, and more insidious than this, please explain.

I personally do have 4 indexed stash tabs. I have not purchased any supporter packs but I buy skin transfers every season, I've purchased some in game skill and armor effects as well as guild micros(just pointing out that I support this game to some degree). I personally think that everyone ought to purchase at least one index-linked stash tab so they do not get left behind. If you like the game, as I do very much, these are much more than a convenience and all you really need is one unless you are a career player. I have made more trades since I purchased them than in the entire 3+ years I have played this game. If you want to discuss what winning means. It is a matter of opinion. Accumulating a lot of wealth might be winning to some players, even if they do not have the highest level characters. Indexed tabs GREATLY assist in the accumulation of wealth as well as saving a lot of time having to use various other methods of trading. The point is, no-ptw should be not be advertised. All things are not equal between the guys that spend cash and the ones who don't.

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innervation a écrit :

So you insist on sinking with the "winning is a matter of opinion" ship. So be it. Your personal goals for your play time are at your discretion, the definitions of words are not. If you could, do me this favor. If and when you find yourself meeting with your boss, let her know that your Thursday 2:00 PM deadline didn't work for you, because the concept of 'Thursday' is a matter of opinion. Record that and share it with us. Or perhaps go get a speeding ticket and fight it in court. Tape the judges reaction when you tell him the definition of 68 mph is relative.

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innervation a écrit :

So you insist on sinking with the "winning is a matter of opinion" ship. So be it. Your personal goals for your play time are at your discretion, the definitions of words are not. If you could, do me this favor. If and when you find yourself meeting with your boss, let her know that your Thursday 2:00 PM deadline didn't work for you, because the concept of 'Thursday' is a matter of opinion. Record that and share it with us. Or perhaps go get a speeding ticket and fight it in court. Tape the judges reaction when you tell him the definition of 68 mph is relative.