"Never pay-to-win" Dishonest Marketing by GGG?

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innervation a écrit :

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Namcap a écrit :

This is pretty much how every single thread goes in the last months.

Random poster says something against/for GGG.
9 pages of the same frequent posters arguing about everything that derails until Sarah tells us to be civil.
OP never shows their face again and doesn't even have to explain the initial post.

Yeah I'll try and change the process.

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

Is it fair to say "Never Pay to Win" on the new Atlas of Worlds marketing: http://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/AtlasofWorldsFactSheet.jpg

I think obviously the premium stash tabs do not confer just a cosmetic in game appearance. I think the premium stash tabs confer a tangible in game advantage in that it makes currency ultimately easier to obtain. I am not saying it is impossible to be successful in game without the premium tabs - but they certainly make the in game experience and acquisition of currency much easier.

I think the premium tabs are paying to get an in game in advantage - which I think is the common interpretation of "Pay to Win". I'm not saying if it is good or bad business by GGG - or judging GGG for charging for the premium stash tabs - or commenting on the price of the tabs - or judging those who do or do not have premium tabs - but is it not misleading to now advertise as "Never Pay to Win"?

So, OP, could you explain further? I've noticed a lot of people lately that like to say something is "obvious", then use that blanket statement as a bit of a smokescreen excuse to not actually give evidence that their position is true.

You say that tabs make acquiring currency easier, and that's the only evidence you give. I'd agree with that, but could you explain how much extra currency you think you'd get from having (X) tabs, and additionally how that extra currency lets you win at this game? By win, I mean reach 100 first in a 3 month league, come in first place in one of the Medallion races, or otherwise win a contest GGG run in which they ship a physical prize to your house.

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Regulator a écrit :

There is no such thing as "fair" marketing, there is marketing. And they use other very controversial statements too.

"we dont force optional content on players" -> Added lab, which is in the grey area of non-optional side content, but the truth is everyone is "forced" to do them
"reworked endgame" -> its litteraly the same, but again according to them they did "rework" some things, no matter if the things reworked are almost identical
"14million accounts" -> using it like they are active or something, while the statement can be certainly true, not only it doesnt make any difference but its rather cheezy.
"not pay to win" -> they consider tabs non-pay to win, so the comment is true from their point of view, but the actual truth is more complicated

So ill say they are beeing dishonest in many aspects so that they advertisement of their game is better and wider, thats part of the marketing system though, use everything you can to hype your product. I personally despise it, but it works, not only by bringing new players in but keeping the "whales" (i_no is a perfect example of that) and the wk happy too.

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

I think it would be hard to quantify (ie hard to say premium stash tabs will give every player 4 exalts per month more than if they didn't have them) because that would all depend on the skill of the player and the time invested. I think given equal skill and equal time, that a player with premium tabs would acquire currency at a greater rate than a player without. As you can obviously buy gear with currency, the player who paid money gains an in game advantage. That to many people is an element of pay-to-win. It isn't to say you can't be successful without premium tabs, it is just to say you can purchase an in game advantage that is not merely cosmetic. So to market this game as "Never pay-to-win" may be disingenuous.

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innervation a écrit :

The definition of winning in a discussion of "pay-to-win" is irrelevant...right.

You people should really be more upset over and/or hung up on the fact that top streamers and racers get free stuff showered on them by their fanboys. That has an exponentially bigger impact on early race progress than tabs, and that's something many degrees of difficulty harder to replicate through effort or time on your part in the first week of a league.

Edit:

To make my position more clear, I'm suggesting that all you need to win in this game is 20c, and that having extra stash tabs only yields you more income at a rate (not that high) and a time (after you've gotten to maps) that it doesn't get you to 20 faster than the threshold of it mattering (you only need the gear for mapping). I hope that is coherent enough.

On the flip side, I've still asked for an expressed, detailed series of premises from the pay-to-win camp and haven't gotten them. You need to make this argument clearly, because the optics clearly aren't in favor of it - people buy stash tabs every day, and they don't go rocketing up the ladders. So if it's less obvious, and more insidious than this, please explain.

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PleiadesBlackstar a écrit :

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innervation a écrit :

The definition of winning in a discussion of "pay-to-win" is irrelevant...right.

You people should really be more upset over and/or hung up on the fact that top streamers and racers get free stuff showered on them by their fanboys. That has an exponentially bigger impact on early race progress than tabs, and that's something many degrees of difficulty harder to replicate through effort or time on your part in the first week of a league.

Edit:

To make my position more clear, I'm suggesting that all you need to win in this game is 20c, and that having extra stash tabs only yields you more income at a rate (not that high) and a time (after you've gotten to maps) that it doesn't get you to 20 faster than the threshold of it mattering (you only need the gear for mapping). I hope that is coherent enough.

On the flip side, I've still asked for an expressed, detailed series of premises from the pay-to-win camp and haven't gotten them. You need to make this argument clearly, because the optics clearly aren't in favor of it - people buy stash tabs every day, and they don't go rocketing up the ladders. So if it's less obvious, and more insidious than this, please explain.

This. Enough said.

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xxSerpentlordxx a écrit :

Innervation


You are redirecting the conversation. When I see something advertised as Never Pay To Win, that implies to me that you can not purchase any sort of in game advantage over another player. The fact of the matter is, you can! in fact!, purchase certain advantages. What the definition of ''winning'' means to you or them when referring to POE is irrelevant. You're focusing too much on that. By you're logic about the gear and endgame and epeen, you might as well add that using third party rmt sites is not paying to win so long as they did not come out on top of the ladder or race. Quit trolling.

Claiming the game is 100% never pay to win is false advertising, plain and simple, although it wasn't always. Also, good luck leveling faster than someone who can consistently afford to purchase higher level maps than you, which are always rolled better. More orbs at their disposal do to the constant spam of players that want to shovel orbs into you're account for indexed junk that the player without upgraded tabs would very likely vendor.