"Never pay-to-win" Dishonest Marketing by GGG?

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Xavderion a écrit :

I don't think it's misleading because the amount of p2w in this game is miniscule.

Miniscule and a matter of opinion. Just because people dont know the difference between F2P and P2W doesn't make this game P2W at all. Just because you can pay for more "CONVENIENCE" doesn't make the game P2W. Convenience DOES NOT equal WIN! Period.

Your not gonna complete or engage harder content or down the hardest boss;s because of your stash tabs, Your not gonna have a more powerful build just because you bought stash tabs. Is it gonna save you time making mules and switching between them? Sure is it gonna make it so you dont have to use Procurement to post trades? Sure. But its not gonna make you a better player or give you a significant advantage over everyone else. You can litteraly do EVERYTHING a paying player can do for free with 4 tabs and mule accounts.. There is already plenty of players doing it everyday already.

Furthermore it costs $20 to buy 6 premium tabs so if you cant drop that after you have played a while and realize you enjoy the game and want to continue playing.. That's on you.. still doesn't change the game is F2P if anything it reinforces it since you CAN make such a decision to continue playing completely for free if you so choose. You get all the same content paying players get.

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Bars a écrit :

What most players define as 'winning' is having a well-geared and leveled character who performs at a satisfactory level according to their own definitions.

This is the same category error as before though. Winner(s), when talking about p2w, get top prizes after coming out on top of a competition. Anyone talking about 'winning' because they achieved their own goals makes p2w irrelevant - your goals are for you and you alone. They are solo goals. They are non-competitive. There is a very simple litmus test to see if any given activity is winning, or achieving a goal: is the reward intrinsic or extrinsic?

Starting PoE for the first time, get a low life skill X build with Shavs online within a month? What's your reward? Nothing but self satisfaction. Intrinsic reward. Payment or non payment irrelevant.

Finishing 14th in a 2 hour race in which GGG send signed artwork to the top 15 places? Extrinsic reward, paying for an advantage would be very relevant if it were possible.

The two goals which keep getting brought up are getting currency and getting gear to make a certain build pursuant to intrinsic reward. Everything I would say at this point I've already said, so I'll wrap up my posts in the thread with this:

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Everyone should just shake their hands at 'PoE is just a little p2w' and live with that without all the drama.

You could fish up the thread from when Chris announced the premium index feature. I was there saying that this is p2w for approximately four people - any full time streamer who legitimately competes for a top spot in a 3 month league who doesn't have tabs. If you're one of those four people, you potentially have a legitimate grievance. The idea of the OP here, however, that marketing PoE as f2p and not-p2w as false advertising? Laughable. So in a way I'm willing to shake hands there (and have already done so from day 1).

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innervation a écrit :

This is the same category error as before though. Winner(s), when talking about p2w, get top prizes after coming out on top of a competition. Anyone talking about 'winning' because they achieved their own goals makes p2w irrelevant - your goals are for you and you alone. They are solo goals. They are non-competitive. There is a very simple litmus test to see if any given activity is winning, or achieving a goal: is the reward intrinsic or extrinsic?

Starting PoE for the first time, get a low life skill X build with Shavs online within a month? What's your reward? Nothing but self satisfaction. Intrinsic reward. Payment or non payment irrelevant.

Finishing 14th in a 2 hour race in which GGG send signed artwork to the top 15 places? Extrinsic reward, paying for an advantage would be very relevant if it were possible.

The two goals which keep getting brought up are getting currency and getting gear to make a certain build pursuant to intrinsic reward. Everything I would say at this point I've already said, so I'll wrap up my posts in the thread with this:

There is active competition and passive competition. Passive competition can be something that doesn't have any tangible rewards such as who has the coolest armor? You win nothing except Epeen. But Believe me People dO compete to look their very best knowingly or not.

I have been playing this game now for 70hrs. Compared to a lot of people here that's pretty casual, but compared to a lot of single player games out there that have content for about 30-50hrs that's really not bad. (You know, games like Legend of Zelda that cost 50$+)

Also I'm pretty sure I'm going to stop soon, sure Atlas of Worlds seems like a nice update, but I'm probably not going to build up another character and fight my way AGAIN three times through content I already know.

So up until now I never had a real reason to spend money on this game (apart from supporting the game), I could play it for free and there is ZERO ingame pressure to buy anything. I still have enough space in my tabs and amassing currency is not necessary for me either.

You could argue that you need to spend a few bucks to really see all the content there is in the game, but seriously this is about the fairest Free2Play game I have ever played.

Threads like this are a slap in the developers face, for no apparent reason.

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TitusAuArcos a écrit :

Threads like this are a slap in the developers face, for no apparent reason.

Reason: a lot of people are incredibly entitled and apparently think they should have the best ARPG since D2 on a silver platter, with a cherry on top, and the developers should subsist on dreams, instant noodles and charity.

My work here is done. *flies away*

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Bars a écrit :

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TitusAuArcos a écrit :

Threads like this are a slap in the developers face, for no apparent reason.

Reason: a lot of people are incredibly entitled and apparently think they should have the best ARPG since D2 on a silver platter, with a cherry on top, and the developers should subsist on dreams, instant noodles and charity.

funny thing about it is that devs probably went for the "no pay to win" and "free to play" route to NOT have this kind of attitude coming up and a constructive and contributing community.

the community just supporting if they really like the game and the direction it takes results in ggg owing them nothing. some players using their previous support as a argument to permanently spamming posts and demanding personal favours is so blackmailing, bribing, useless and, i would guess, counter productive.

To those complaining, would you like stash tabs locked d3 style, behind doing 40/40 challenges each league for 1 stash tab? Behind excuse that it takes up data storage and is impossible to handle?

I would rather support this game by buying something useful, like stash tabs, than buying mtx.

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Bars a écrit :

Reason: a lot of people are incredibly entitled and apparently think they should have the best ARPG since D2 on a silver platter, with a cherry on top, and the developers should subsist on dreams, instant noodles and charity.

My work here is done. *flies away*

This.

I don't really care if "Never pay-to-win" is fair marketing or not, I just want GGG to continue and to better this game, release expansions and develop it. Hope that our loyal supporters and MTX buyers continue their support, and I'll give my sincere thanks to them. I really like this game and the way GGG implemented its F2P business model.

I don't care if people who buys hundreds of stash tabs win, in fact, if you feel that having lots of stash stabs will make you a winner, then yes in your face without blinking I'll say to you, "Go ahead, make yourself a winner!" with a smile.

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element274 a écrit :

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Bars a écrit :

Reason: a lot of people are incredibly entitled and apparently think they should have the best ARPG since D2 on a silver platter, with a cherry on top, and the developers should subsist on dreams, instant noodles and charity.

My work here is done. *flies away*

This.

I don't really care if "Never pay-to-win" is fair marketing or not, I just want GGG to continue and to better this game, release expansions and develop it. Hope that our loyal supporters and MTX buyers continue their support, and I'll give my sincere thanks to them. I really like this game and the way GGG implemented its F2P business model.

I don't care if people who buys hundreds of stash tabs win, in fact, if you feel that having lots of stash stabs will make you a winner, then yes in your face without blinking I'll say to you, "Go ahead, make yourself a winner!" with a smile.

*thumbs up*

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Bars a écrit :

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TitusAuArcos a écrit :

Threads like this are a slap in the developers face, for no apparent reason.

Reason: a lot of people are incredibly entitled and apparently think they should have the best ARPG since D2 on a silver platter, with a cherry on top, and the developers should subsist on dreams, instant noodles and charity.

My work here is done. *flies away*

Is it a snickers a mars or a milky way, no it's Bars?

/Gazes at the big B lighting up the evening sky. . .

Peace,

-Boem-