watching Streamers do the Hardcore one-month, made me realize something

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CharanJaydemyr a écrit :

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phrazz a écrit :

Hmmm, I got my links, I got my quote. And I have to say, reading Chris' post where he actually pretty directly says that bosses are designed with alt-f4 in mind, I'm baffled.

Can I see this please? I want to take in the wording.

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Chris_GGG a écrit :

It's currently an accepted playstyle that allows us to design bosses to be more interesting. If you're locked in to *absolutely having to kill it with no hope of escape* then it has to be an easier fight.

I were referring to this, but I do realize that he may be talking about portals. The key is; what is allowing them to design bosses more interesting?

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johnKeys a écrit :

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Arrowneous a écrit :

 Very strange that anyone should call fowl for using a PoE game feature. GGG programmed PoE with an emergency escape when you need it. You will never get GGG to publicly admit to allowing us to the Alt-F4 bail out to compensate for the stupidly high desync we must put up with to play in this sandbox but that's why we get this in PoE. Better to bail out than die and be knocked out of an HC league or lose 10% in an SC league.

man that's like saying "GGG are to blame for allowing the players to shut down their computers".
alt+f4 is part of Windows. it's part of the OS, for which Path Of Exile is merely one more process out of a thousand.

but the culture which effectively says "not only is it ok to log out, you are a stupid person and an awful player if you don't" - is what makes it extremely easy for GGG to go ahead and punish the players who are here to play the actual game, just to have a better shot at making an alt-f4er RIP.
one shots, bullshit mechanics... even good old desync are all still here and still in full force, not so much because people altf4. but mostly because it's becoming a strong recommendation for people who try not to, to embrace the way of the exploit and macro.
a deadly cycle that feeds itself.

I thought you could override alt f4 with code.

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NeroNoah a écrit :

I thought you could override alt f4 with code.

but you cannot override me pulling my power or network cord/antenna out.

point is, expecting GGG to somehow "fix" alt-f4, is folly.
but expecting them to stop balancing the game around alt-f4 and not touching issues like desync on the pretence that it'll make the game "be more exploitable" - is an absolute must.

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johnKeys a écrit :

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NeroNoah a écrit :

I thought you could override alt f4 with code.

but you cannot override me pulling my power or network cord/antenna out.

point is, expecting GGG to somehow "fix" alt-f4, is folly.
but expecting them to stop balancing the game around alt-f4 and not touching issues like desync on the pretence that it'll make the game "be more exploitable" - is an absolute must.

But you can, your character will stay on the server on for xyz seconds until your pulled from the game. If you want to disallow Alt-f4 gameplay you have to smooth out spike damage and revist forms of healing to be less bursty and only allow you to log out during combat.

Even then you can portal in combat like d2, and when you skilled enough it takes a fraction of a second longer then alt f4.

People are focusing on the act of alt-f4ing and "sportmanships" and other crap as oppose to whenever or not the game should be designed around bursty damage and instant log out or the opposite (D3ish)

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johnKeys a écrit :

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Arrowneous a écrit :

 Very strange that anyone should call fowl for using a PoE game feature. GGG programmed PoE with an emergency escape when you need it. You will never get GGG to publicly admit to allowing us to the Alt-F4 bail out to compensate for the stupidly high desync we must put up with to play in this sandbox but that's why we get this in PoE. Better to bail out than die and be knocked out of an HC league or lose 10% in an SC league.

man that's like saying "GGG are to blame for allowing the players to shut down their computers".
alt+f4 is part of Windows. it's part of the OS, for which Path Of Exile is merely one more process out of a thousand.

but the culture which effectively says "not only is it ok to log out, you are a stupid person and an awful player if you don't" - is what makes it extremely easy for GGG to go ahead and punish the players who are here to play the actual game, just to have a better shot at making an alt-f4er RIP.
one shots, bullshit mechanics... even good old desync are all still here and still in full force, not so much because people altf4. but mostly because it's becoming a strong recommendation for people who try not to, to embrace the way of the exploit and macro.
a deadly cycle that feeds itself.

yeah alt f4 is part of windows but ggg added code that would detect when an alt f4 packet comes and the first response would be to log out the players. If you try to log to char screen or simply log out to log in screen there are more steps that take time inbetween you pressing log out and you actually logging out on the server.

You never seem to take in to account that a lot of players are competitive and seem to forget that in this online game people actually try to compete with one another.

If you are trying to stay on the ladder why would you just forfeit your position/economic advantage by not having to bankroll and invest time in a new char if you can log out? There is also the fact that a lot of people are attached to a character that they build up over weeks/months of time. If you can avoid their death there is nothing wrong in it, as you seem to imply. It's as if you play an offline game, alone but expect everyone to play by your self imposed limitations.



You have the same problem with pvp. Sure it was much simpler 6 months ago when there weren't rewards and you were only playing for fun with people and there wasn't that much competition and the average gear level was much lower. But as soon as there is something to compete for of course builds will become much more min-maxed and much more currency will be involved into it thus making it harder for casual or self found players to compete actively.

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but you cannot override me pulling my power or network cord/antenna out.

feel free to do that if you want to die...You will stay in the game between ~6-10 seconds and 45(?) depending on when the instance was created.

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RagnarokChu a écrit :

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johnKeys a écrit :

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NeroNoah a écrit :

I thought you could override alt f4 with code.

but you cannot override me pulling my power or network cord/antenna out.

point is, expecting GGG to somehow "fix" alt-f4, is folly.
but expecting them to stop balancing the game around alt-f4 and not touching issues like desync on the pretence that it'll make the game "be more exploitable" - is an absolute must.

But you can, your character will stay on the server on for xyz seconds until your pulled from the game.

so if my power goes out or my ISP is having issues, I'll RIP in Path Of Exile?

again, "fighting altf4" isn't the answer. you'll be fighting a dozen while screwing a hundred as "collateral damage".

but this "encouragement to altf4" and situation where not alf4ing is considered bad gameplay - absolutely has to stop.
as is GGG virtually saying "we have a right to put one-shots in the game, and not do a damn about it's optimization and desync, because you can always altf4".
if that quote from Chris is real, intentional and guides any current or upcoming design decisions - I'm fucking scared.

I think using log out to save a character is MORE than fair when my character can also die while i'm still loading an instance.

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johnKeys a écrit :

again, "fighting altf4" isn't the answer. you'll be fighting a dozen while screwing a hundred as "collateral damage".

but this "encouragement to altf4" and situations where not alf4ing is considered bad gameplay - absolutely has to stop.

This I almost agree on. I'd be nicer if the game wasn't so bursty in general but it will require a revisiting of evasion/block/instant life pots/vaal pack leech/ other forms of leech/life regen/damage mitigainto and pretty much the whole game from the ground up.

Maybe for poe 2 :)

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so if my power goes out or my ISP is having issues, I'll RIP in Path Of Exile?

maybe, maybe not. Depends on how many mobs are around you and how tanky you are. If you have a flat line you stop seeing what is happening on your screen and take a "sudden" damage burst once the connection is back. This has obviously taken longer serverwise but since you couldn't send packets that you are potting you can die in that amount of time.

If your power goes down its similar. Your char will stay in game, taking damage untill the sever detects you are no longer connected and kicks you out. Death or not depends entirely on where you were and what your char is.

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johnKeys a écrit :

but this "encouragement to altf4" and situation where not alf4ing is considered bad gameplay - absolutely has to stop.

What about dying to desync?

When I'm in the middle of the screen with no mobs around me and suddenly I get taken down to 10% HP I have every right to alt-F4.

That's what I call very good gameplay. The 100% fact is that there is too much BS in the game to not alt-F4, you can take the moral high ground when the game is actually playable in HC without alt-F4 but now this thread is just pointless.

I completely agree with you on this one John.