How to fix the whole Righteous Fire problem

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ventiman a écrit :

and the hate against scrotie is so entertaining all those dual totem player who fear someone will take away their favorite toy isnt it sad that you rather keep your op status than help the dev team in a beta to balance the gameplay ?

I think it's more sad that you two are still harping over this when it doesn't affect you or how you play the game.

1.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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entropus a écrit :

Low DPS you say? Man, are you for REAL? The guy on the video wreaks havoc 'in real life'. Been to some maps with him. The infernal blow chain reactions is a metric fucktone of AOE DPS. One of the highest AOE DPS Ive seen so far.

The killspeed can be so high that you do not need 100% IIR from Wondertraps or that much IIQ - you kill things three times as fast. You dont need to be low life.

Admittedly the corpse exploding AoE was not really a highlight of the build. Still, it's clear that his non-corpse DPS is pretty low, which means that he's not slaughtering groups of mobs in the blink of an eye like you say he is.

You are wrong, Scrotie...

I dont get it. I wrote I did maps with this guy, yet you write:
"he's not slaughtering groups of mobs in the blink of an eye like you say he is."

He. Is. Slaughtering. The MF guy I run maps with told him to stop using Infernal Blow because he wasnt able to kill mobs with his AOE Culling strike ability... In a 4 man map lvl 73-74 the whole room was dead before the rest of the group got there because of the chain corpse explosion of IB.

2.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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entropus a écrit :

Sorry man, but everyone playing this game more than 1 evening a week will find/trade and gear up at least one of his chars with equipment worth couple of exalts by the time they kill Merciless Piety.

Which then begs the question: change into a different build, or simply find upgrades for the MF build you've been currently using, stacking even more IIQ/IIR, more DPS/anti-reflect?

I use a split-arrow low life ranger for MF. Thank you.
My main char is a RF FP.

WTH are you suggesting other people change their builds, Scrotie? The whole world doesnt revolve around your great person, no matter how many suggestions of fixing POE balance problem about other people builds you make.

I like RF and running low-life with shavs, because it is the closest thing you can get to a canonical mage in this game. Not some shitty life-ES hybrid designed to be only EFFICIENT at killing monstres and not keeping in line with fantasy canon.

3.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

If your aim is to play auction house tycoon with the winnings, the answer is the latter.

No, I dont. I hate trading, I hate farming, I just want to do high level maps.

4.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

This is likely why the cost of Shavronne's is so high; it's an upgrade for one of the OP MF builds, and those dudes are rolling in orbs.

So what someone is rich and you are poor? Get to work FFS.
And if you think you get rich in this game by farming and not flipping, better visit trade chat sometimes instead of producing more statements based on some artificial theories of how a computer game works...

5.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

The key concept is to look at how well the build performs with cheap gear; if it outperforms under those conditions, it almost always outperforms other builds when using expensive gear, too, on top of obviously having the easiest time saving up for said expensive gear. Thus it's RF builds overall which are OP, not Shavronne's.

Scrotie, you are wrong because you do not take into account the difference between running LT2-3 and running progressively higher lvl maps.

"The key concept is to look at how well the build performs with cheap gear; if it outperforms under those conditions, it almost always outperforms other builds when using expensive gear"

Cheap MF builds (sporkers with RF) are good ONLY for LT2-3.
In LT2-3 my cheap low life split arrow ranger is doing comparably fine to a sporker. And by cheap I mean Lioneye's Glare + some gear you can find on your own (well, I even found the LG, not bought it). And don't say LG is not cheap, I bet you can get one for 2 Exalted orbs with some luck. 3 Exa is a normal price I'd say. And you can farm 2-3 Exalted orbs EASILY just getting to Merciless.

6.
"it almost always outperforms other builds when using expensive gear, too,"

Scrotie, you are wrong.

The most efficient farmer I've seen was a summoner with some ridiculous IIR/IIQ stacked (double Andv, potion, etc gear maybe worth 15 exalted?), not a RF sporker with Shav's worth 30 Exa.
As far as farming goes, low life farming with a triple spork build would be comparably efficient to RF sporker. Just need to have couple of anti-curse potions, seen this live, viable.

From my experience I can tell my RF FP Witch has very nice DPS but lacks survivability. Performs very well in a 3-4 ppl group, were AOE DPS shines, but solo, or 2 ppl group, lack of armour hurts. And I play with people geared for 10-15 Exa total, not 50-100 exa total.

"Thus it's RF builds overall which are OP, not Shavronne's."
No, RF builds are not OP.
Cheap RF build - you can get some other cheap farming build to farm LT2-3 and farm it with comparable speed.
Expensive RF build - with same amount of cash, you can deck out a tanking char that will not fall no matter what mobs you throw at him, a marauder FP with Taryn's/Kaom's, or a LA ranger or sth comparable.


TL/DR

Scrotie, you are wrong.

Cheap RF sporkers are comparably fast in clearing LT2-3 as some other builds.
Expensive RF builds for maps have high DPS, but lack survivability of other expensive builds.

You think from the perspective of a racer, focusing your 'fix the problem of' threads on some low-level gameplay.
That's not a problem from my perspective as long as it doesnt affect me running maps. And please note majority of people playing PoE do so to get to end-game, not run races.

Remember, there are other players except you. Don't be selfish. Stop telling people to change their builds, world doesnt revolve around you.

ps Wouldnt be nice to use the 'new, improved' RF to get advantage in races by exploiting 'innovative' spell caster builds using RF? Sure it would, Scrotie...

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ventiman a écrit :

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Angryweasel a écrit :

LOL You just lost all credit saying that line

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scrotieMcNooblet a écrit :

Because if it isn't, it's being used suboptimally. If you put Melee Splash on Dual Strike, you're doing it wrong; Cleave has it built-in.

Get to endgame before you come with any further suggestion because you clearly has no idea what you are talking about..

still laughing abit at that answer you made xD

always love this was it hard to die up the softcoreladder ? seriously herpes had the same arrogance with his 92 guys you play standard with 10% exp loss on death
being highlvl in standard means nothing everyone can do it if he has no life and scrotie already said he had different lvl 75+ which he deleted

and the hate against scrotie is so entertaining all those dual totem player who fear someone will take away their favorite toy isnt it sad that you rather keep your op status than help the dev team in a beta to balance the gameplay ?

No hate really he clearly just don't know what he is talking about and is hating on a spec he hasn't even tried himself. He then tries to fix a skill by completely reworking it from what it's intended to be used as instead of trying to figure out a way to make it work the way it was intended. (I even wrote a suggestion to that)

I play Onslaught and I've seen plenty use that attack on high lvl maps and own so ye I thought his comment about that was pretty silly. (lack of knowledge)

yeah i apologize when i browsed you on poe statistics the first 5 80+ character showed up were standard i had no idea that i have to scroll down for another 7 lvl 80+

you must have a lot of free time....

btw saw your onslaught iir farmer for hire guess what he plays....

which proves my point most of the comments here are ppl try to save their own ass

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ventiman a écrit :

yeah i apologize when i browsed you on poe statistics the first 5 80+ character showed up were standard i had no idea that i have to scroll down for another 7 lvl 80+

you must have a lot of free time....

btw saw your onslaught iir farmer for hire guess what he plays....

which proves my point most of the comments here are ppl try to save their own ass

I'm CI if u are wondering so not even using RF or shavs. so not like it will change anything for me :)

Also soon changing from spork totems to shockwave for last hits it seems to do the job better though need some investment in the tree. my spork dps is 195 dps so not really OP in anyway I need the group to do the actual dmg so I can cull (sorry for the derail)

:)

Bump, because I still strongly believe in the original suggestion. At least the RF part.

Some replies:

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entropus a écrit :

As far as farming goes, low life farming with a triple spork build would be comparably efficient to RF sporker. Just need to have couple of anti-curse potions, seen this live, viable.

You apparently seem to think that RF is impossible with Soul Mantle. It's not. Triple totem low-life RF PA with Soul Mantle sounds like a nice, potentially OP MF build to me. Like I've said over and over again this thread, I do not believe Shavronne's is heinously OP, I'm not trying to nerf Shavronne's, I'm trying to change how Righteous Fire works so that it's harder to sustain permanently (nerfing dedicated RF builds) but actually easier to sustain temporarily (and thus not a total nerf).

Although you definitely have a point about summoners being OP. I just built one, and it's a tad absurd. The idea of re-buffing Inner Force now that it "doesn't effect flasks" is just a silly summoner buff when I'd get on most any sensible "let's nerf summoners" bandwagon at this point.

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Angryweasel a écrit :

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ventiman a écrit :

and the hate against scrotie is so entertaining all those dual totem player who fear someone will take away their favorite toy isnt it sad that you rather keep your op status than help the dev team in a beta to balance the gameplay ?

No hate really he clearly just don't know what he is talking about and is hating on a spec he hasn't even tried himself. He then tries to fix a skill by completely reworking it from what it's intended to be used as instead of trying to figure out a way to make it work the way it was intended.

My suggestion is borne out of a desire for RF to work as it was originally intended; a temporary yet significant buff to spell damage which 1) leaves the user more exposed to damage and 2) is so difficult to maintain that it would require a huge amount of dedication to pull off such a feat.

The key flaw in its original design was that it all but kills you by turning off only once your life reaches 1 (unless you pack Dousing flasks as a specialized measure). Making it key off of ES and end when your ES reaches zero instead allows Righteous Fire to be better used for its original intent: players won't be so hesitant to burn away all of their ES, assuming that they have some Life to fall back on, yet burning that ES unquestionably makes them more exposed to damage.

Or, to put it more harshly: You need to understand that, according to the intent of the skill, the design of RF never achieved that intent, ever. Even prior to Zealot's Oath. It's been a GGG mistake from its very introduction, and its history of use is a comedy of errors (GGG euphemism: "emergent gameplay").

^

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/501779/page/1/#p4459352


I'd prefer this.

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lucksickle a écrit :

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/501779/page/1/#p4459352


I'd prefer this.

I can agree that having quality effect the burn rate is a more interesting quality bonus than it has now, but that really wouldn't fix any balance concerns; I'd like to see this as a quality bonus on a based-off-ES version. Since ES gets higher values than life, perhaps starting at 30% monster burn and maxing at 50% monster burn (3.5k/sec on a 7k ES char) would be appropriate.

I like the suggestion generally but don't like the 'need ES to burn part'. I'd make it "You burn for 100% of your ES or life per second and stop at 1 life".
Really, the whole thing right now stinks of exploit far more then it smacks of clever mechanics interpretation, risk is too small, rewards are too big.

And I dig the idea for three 5% individual max resist nodes instead of one 2% node, that will revive life-based RF.