How to fix the whole Righteous Fire problem

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entropus a écrit :

Scrotie, you do not stick to the point. I am not saying about getting to map. I say that build solo facerolls 6 man lvl 77 Piety with each and every brutal map affix.
The equipment is around the same cost needed for a 5L Shav's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prkMIPV7qMQ
So why not nerf that build it if you want to nerf RF?

Because that build doesn't seem very overpowered at all. The proper measure of how OP a build is not how badass it looks, but how much loot it takes in per map, with a secondary consideration of map clear speed, relative to how much it costs to gear. Low DPS, probably no IIR/IIQ, expensive gear; that build isn't a problem. That's just a novelty build that can do badass things. Badass is not overpowered; getting lots of loot with cheap gear is overpowered.

Here's an overpowered build: RG_PankO's Onslaught Cheap Farming Build - Low Life RF Spork without Shavronne's Wrappings. What makes it overpowered is mostly:

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RG_PankO a écrit :

1. Cheap - You need 10 chaos to gear the character to kill Piety on Merciless.

The ability to use cheap gear is the primary characteristic of OP builds; it allows them to focus as much on IIQ/IIR as possible.

That is the type of build I'm focusing on. I'm not trying to nerf Shavronne's because Shavronne's isn't part of the problem; sure, getting one might be a boon to someone running that OP build, but it's being independent from expensive gear that makes OP builds OP. I'm not trying to nerf badassness whatsoever; Aegis Aurora guy is fine, and actually Shavronne's users are fine too.

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entropus a écrit :

As I said, there's a lot OP builds. U believe they're next on your list of 'fix the problem of X' threads, where x=cleave,spork,aegis aurora tank,etc.

As discussed before, Cleave and Aegis Aurora aren't overpowered whatsoever. Spork is, but I had a good idea on how to fix RF, but not a good idea on how to fix Spork.

LOL You just lost all credit saying that line

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scrotieMcNooblet a écrit :

Because if it isn't, it's being used suboptimally. If you put Melee Splash on Dual Strike, you're doing it wrong; Cleave has it built-in.

Get to endgame before you come with any further suggestion because you clearly has no idea what you are talking about..

still laughing abit at that answer you made xD

How to fix lowlife caster builds that use RF and ZO?

Easily!

1. Make auras fade when you unequip an item that affects their cost (like Alpha's howl or Malachai simula. The number of auras, that lowlife builds can use, will decrease drastically.
2. Reduce spelldamage bonus, provided by RF. For a single buff, it's too strong.
3. Add some negative effect to pain attunement.

and so on...
A lot of things could be done


Though, i also think, that if we nerf lowlife caster builds, we also should make it easier for them to get "chaos damage does not bypass ES" bonus. That could be gained through some new item (which should be lowlevel crap, that grants that kind of bonus).

1

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Low DPS, probably no IIR/IIQ, expensive gear; that build isn't a problem. That's just a novelty build that can do badass things.

Low DPS you say? Man, are you for REAL? The guy on the video wreaks havoc 'in real life'. Been to some maps with him. The infernal blow chain reactions is a metric fucktone of AOE DPS. One of the highest AOE DPS Ive seen so far.

The killspeed can be so high that you do not need 100% IIR from Wondertraps or that much IIQ - you kill things three times as fast. You dont need to be low life.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Badass is not overpowered; getting lots of loot with cheap gear is overpowered.

Here's an overpowered build: RG_PankO's Onslaught Cheap Farming Build - Low Life RF Spork without Shavronne's Wrappings. What makes it overpowered is mostly:

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RG_PankO a écrit :

1. Cheap - You need 10 chaos to gear the character to kill Piety on Merciless.

The ability to use cheap gear is the primary characteristic of OP builds; it allows them to focus as much on IIQ/IIR as possible.

So if I need to spend an astonishing amount of 5 exalted orbs to gear up my character, then it's not OP? Sorry man, but everyone playing this game more than 1 evening a week will find/trade and gear up at least one of his chars with equipment worth couple of exalts by the time they kill Merciless Piety.

I feel silly for explaining to you that you should not limit the builds labelle as OP to the ones that need gear worth less than half an exalt or no more than 2 GCP...

3.
On the other hand. The RF/Shavronne's build is one of the most expensive ones (30 exalted+).
Then why do you consider it to be OP and want to nerf RF? I know you want to nerf RGPanko's cheap builds, but you will also nerf expensive builds, which are not, by YOUR definition, OP (OP = cheap + high IIR + high IIQ).

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entropus a écrit :

Low DPS you say? Man, are you for REAL? The guy on the video wreaks havoc 'in real life'. Been to some maps with him. The infernal blow chain reactions is a metric fucktone of AOE DPS. One of the highest AOE DPS Ive seen so far.

The killspeed can be so high that you do not need 100% IIR from Wondertraps or that much IIQ - you kill things three times as fast. You dont need to be low life.

Admittedly the corpse exploding AoE was not really a highlight of the build. Still, it's clear that his non-corpse DPS is pretty low, which means that he's not slaughtering groups of mobs in the blink of an eye like you say he is.

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entropus a écrit :

Sorry man, but everyone playing this game more than 1 evening a week will find/trade and gear up at least one of his chars with equipment worth couple of exalts by the time they kill Merciless Piety.

Which then begs the question: change into a different build, or simply find upgrades for the MF build you've been currently using, stacking even more IIQ/IIR, more DPS/anti-reflect? If your aim is to play auction house tycoon with the winnings, the answer is the latter. This is likely why the cost of Shavronne's is so high; it's an upgrade for one of the OP MF builds, and those dudes are rolling in orbs.

The key concept is to look at how well the build performs with cheap gear; if it outperforms under those conditions, it almost always outperforms other builds when using expensive gear, too, on top of obviously having the easiest time saving up for said expensive gear. Thus it's RF builds overall which are OP, not Shavronne's.

Replace it with something fun.

You seem to neglect the point that some people are exualy trying to make RF work on a life basis and not on "low-life".

Your sugestions would make energy shield mandatory to enable RF, instead of keeping to its core design (that of a life based caster)

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

The key concept is to look at how well the build performs with cheap gear; if it outperforms under those conditions, it almost always outperforms other builds when using expensive gear, too, on top of obviously having the easiest time saving up for said expensive gear. Thus it's RF builds overall which are OP, not Shavronne's.

If it's cheap gear that's the problem then why aren't you proposing a nerf/change to spring leaf shield? That shield alone allows cheap RF dual spork dock/lunaris farming builds (such as the one you linked to) the ability to trump their similar geared counterparts. Without the easy 6% life regen it's much harder to sustain RF at the "problematic" gear level. In fact, to sustain RF one would HAVE to take trolls blood, which in itself nerfs the characters potential damage, and still achieve a base ES of 3562.5 in addition to allocating elemental adaptation and obtaining level 20 purity/vitality.* This change alone would make it much more costly (comparative to the current price) to build a low life RF sporker and, from your perspective, much less overpowered. Furthermore, it would be nearly impossible to run RF in any map (not taking into account the necessity of shavs) with a "bad" affix until the player achieves a gear level that you proclaim no longer defines an overpowered build; this is a point I agree upon as I feel the carrot to this type of game is achieving a gear level to feel like a demigod, whereas the stick is having the perseverance to grind up to said level. Being able to achieve the carrot for ~10 chaos is absurd and the true problem that needs to be addressed

As entropus has pointed out, in higher level maps the clear speed disparity between sporkers and other builds becomes greatly diminished. More importantly (for the sake of your argument), the cost to enter said maps is incredibly high for the sporker and relatively low for many other builds. If GGG hinders the clearing speed of map capable sporkers then we'll simply see a shift in build preference from RF sporkers to builds who wear less IIR/IIQ but to make up for it in clear speed. Instead, lets reduce the ease of partaking in the benefits of running righteous fire without penalizing players who have earned the ability to do so.

*I recognize that shavs ring will probably become a substitute for spring leaf once it's available in all leagues. Personally I think the drawback(s) of the ring is enough to warrant the ability to sustain RF (what I currently use); however, I can see where many others may not so would have no problem if it also saw its regen reworked.

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Angryweasel a écrit :

LOL You just lost all credit saying that line

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scrotieMcNooblet a écrit :

Because if it isn't, it's being used suboptimally. If you put Melee Splash on Dual Strike, you're doing it wrong; Cleave has it built-in.

Get to endgame before you come with any further suggestion because you clearly has no idea what you are talking about..

still laughing abit at that answer you made xD

always love this was it hard to die up the softcoreladder ? seriously herpes had the same arrogance with his 92 guys you play standard with 10% exp loss on death
being highlvl in standard means nothing everyone can do it if he has no life and scrotie already said he had different lvl 75+ which he deleted

and the hate against scrotie is so entertaining all those dual totem player who fear someone will take away their favorite toy isnt it sad that you rather keep your op status than help the dev team in a beta to balance the gameplay ?