Less RNG in Socket Crafting Please!

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Josephoenix a écrit :

I can't respond to you, because I both lack the experience, the understanding, and have falsely given myself the impression that I know enough about this game to refute any and all differing opinions from those who have probably more gaming experience than I do.

So I'm going to throw in some thinly veiled ad hominem garbage, and walk away like the internet tough guy I am, while secretly hoping that my underlying hidden agenda's that I base my "opinion" and preference on goes unnoticed.

fixed that for you :)

I wish you well in all you do btw, just hope it's not game development discussion. You're not mature enough for that imho.

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Pastromy a écrit :

This game was never meant to be easy. If you expect to be spoon-fed easy content, you're looking in the wrong place. The same goes for crafting BiS gear. Sure, people sometimes get lucky and get a 6L on their first fusing. Look at the forums though, this is uncommon. Most people complain about how hard it is. This is working as intended. You don't need a 6L to succeed in this game. Hell, you don't even need a 5L. They are a privilege earned through time played and currency used.

High reliance on RNG is not =/= Difficulty

When exactly, did people make this false assumption? and why didn't they get corrected?

I would never describe trying to fuse a 6l as hard, I'd describe it as either "mind numbing" "frustrating" or more aptly "tedius and unnecessary"


But a humorous false quote to sum up some of these things and how they affect the game by proxy.

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Nobody_ever a écrit :

"Wow dude! have you heard about path of exile? the gearing up in it is massively RNG driven, meaning you could try build something and be undergeared and have it FAIL miserably! or try do something and be gated by a... wait for it... cos you'll lose your shi* when I say it...

GEAR CHECKS!!!! OMG DUDE THE GEAR CHECKS ARE AMAZING"

- Nobody....ever...

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Pastromy a écrit :

It doesn't take very much currency to craft a decent rare.

People complain that they can't craft a 5L/6L ES chest with 1k es and 6 red sockets. Such items are NOT decent, they are niche, end game gear that will NEVER be replaced.

I level many alts, and I hardly ever replace an item midlevel because I never can fit in my skills again. Or do you truly believe it is a GOOD system where 20+ fusings refuse to give me my 4 link back? Now after many hours, stashes full of items, I can level characters using the 4 links I already have. But that still means nothing that drops is ever a valid option to replace what I wear. Until late game (60+) where you start working on real gear...

And no, this is not bad luck, this happens constantly.

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Pastromy a écrit :

If you expect to be spoon-fed easy content, you're looking in the wrong place.

No one is expecting to be spoon fed. What we do expect is constant upward progression. Gear progression should never force you to lose character progression.

A peace of gear dropping with better stats should inherently and always be an upgrade. It shouldn't force you to have to remove skills that are part of how your character functions in order to upgrade stats.

It's not that hard to get chromatics. Check your shops when you level and look for them on the ground. I've had cases where it's taken me 40 fusings to 4L something. I've also had cases where it's taken one. But it usually takes me something like 10-20.

If you really need fusings, start picking up every magic and rare item. You can turn alterations into jewelers and jewelers into fusings.

Also, I don't consider 60+ late game. I think 75+ is more like late game.


@Loki421: If a piece of gear doesn't have the right sockets, then it doesn't have better stats yet. Furthermore, better stats is extremely subjective.

For instance, I wore a ring for 25+ levels on a character simply because it had a ton of resistances, even though it had no life. Yes, I found rings with life and some offensive stats that I would have LIKED to wear, but I couldn't because I needed those resistances. Therefore, those rings were not upgrades.

You can similarly generalize the same concept to socketed gear. Yes, you might find gear with better life/resists/etc, but if it doesn't have the right sockets, it is simply not an upgrade. So, you have two options for gear upgrades at that point. You can either find a piece with the right links and/or sockets and attempt to roll the affixes, or you can find a piece with good affixes and attempt to roll the sockets.

I would never replace a piece of gear that had the right sockets with another one that didn't. Therefore, our ideas of better gear and upward progression differ.

For me, the later in the game you get, the more plateaus in gear you have to deal with.

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Undon3 a écrit :

Balance. With RNG in the mix. With unpredictable results in the mix too. With RNG drops in the mix too.

But...

It shouldn't be 100% RNG. (from now on, read this as "I'd like to...", because I don't think it's good because I want it and so on, if you know what I mean...)

I agree. I enjoy games more when I know that the odds tend to go in my favor if I'm doing things right. Pure rng in crafting never gives me the chance to increase my odds of desired results, making it very unsatisfying. At least with drops you are able to increase you odds with mf.

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Pastromy a écrit :

It's not that hard to get chromatics. Check your shops when you level and look for them on the ground. I've had cases where it's taken me 40 fusings to 4L something. I've also had cases where it's taken one. But it usually takes me something like 10-20.

Also, I don't consider 60+ late game. I think 75+ is more like late game.


@Loki421: If a piece of gear doesn't have the right sockets, then it doesn't have better stats yet. Furthermore, better stats is extremely subjective.

For instance, I wore a ring for 25+ levels on a character simply because it had a ton of resistances, even though it had no life. Yes, I found rings with life and some offensive stats that I would have LIKED to wear, but I couldn't because I needed those resistances. Therefore, those rings were not upgrades.

You can similarly generalize the same concept to socketed gear. Yes, you might find gear with better life/resists/etc, but if it doesn't have the right sockets, it is simply not an upgrade. So, you have two options for gear upgrades at that point. You can either find a pierce with the right links and/or sockets and attempt to roll the affixes, or you can find a piece with good affixes and attempt to roll the sockets.

I would never replace a piece of gear that had the right sockets with another one that didn't. Therefore, our ideas of better gear and upward progression differ.

For me, the later in the game you get, the more plateaus in gear you have to deal with.

Not indicative of a fun or even halfway decent game design in that regard, still don't get how you use the term "spoon fed" when alluding to anything being complained about or suggested here. It's like saying that small altercation with that dude next door was world war 3, it's just a huge exaggeration.

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Pastromy a écrit :

@Loki421: If a piece of gear doesn't have the right sockets, then it doesn't have better stats yet. Furthermore, better stats is extremely subjective.

Basically the argument I'm trying to make is that inherent built in character REgression is never a fun mechanic. If all orbs where removed from the game this is exactly what you would have. You would be constantly having to change skills, the fundamental identity of who your character is, based on the gear that dropped or you would never progress. It would be a nightmare and your character would never feel unique. You'd just match up what skill gems you have to whatever your best armor was and go with it, until your next armor upgrade.

To overcome this limitation in their design, they have offered up the orb system, an equally un-fun mechanic of sticking coins (orbs) in a box (armor) until you get something to pop out that you can use with your current skill set. And you are forced to play this boring side game all the time, just so that you can get to actual fun parts of the game.

Having skills as gems is a fun idea, and rewarding when you acquire a new skill or gem. However once you have actually acquired that skill(provided you have the right stats), access to it should not be restricted and limited by other (un-fun) game play mechanics getting in the way.

TTL:DR Tying skills to armor is a unique idea, but if you are going to try something unique and different in your game you can't just do it half way. You can't just treat those skills as if they are just another piece of armor. They need to have their own special set of unique rules that go along with the original unique idea. Unique.

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Loki421 a écrit :

Having skills as gems is a fun idea, and rewarding when you acquire a new skill or gem. However once you have actually acquired that skill(provided you have the right stats), access to it should not be restricted and limited by other (not fun) game play mechanics getting in the way.

I've never really had a problem 4-linking an item. If they made a sure way to get a certain amount of links, I'm pretty sure it would cost even more currency than it already does to get it with a 95% success rate.

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Loki421 a écrit :

Basically the argument I'm trying to make is that inherent built in character REgression is never a fun mechanic.

There is no inherent character regression aside from the penalty to resistances incurred in each subsequent difficulty.

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Pastromy a écrit :

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Loki421 a écrit :

Basically the argument I'm trying to make is that inherent built in character REgression is never a fun mechanic.

There is no inherent character regression aside from the penalty to resistances incurred in each subsequent difficulty.

There is in skill sockets. You could even just call it randomization. Whatever it is, you are forced to change your skills up based on the gear that drops. That or not progress at all.

To overcome this regression or randomization they gave us this un-fun mini game where we stick our coins in and hope we eventually get something we can use with our skill set.

Your skill set, is who your character is. It should always be easily accessible regardless of the type of gear you are able to acquire.

I'm essentially advocating something that is more of a compromise between what we have now and a traditional skill tree where you always have your skills regardless of the gear you find.