Please bring map boss hp down

So I find out that, hey, this Rhoa fight should've ended way sooner than it did, and I'm being accused of chasing carrots on a stick because I recognize that bullet sponge enemies are not interesting design and is implemented to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist- or for some bosses does exist but will be completely ineffectual in solving it.

I'm being accused of chasing carrots on a stick, for advocating that this change hurts players and builds... That don't chase carrots on a stick. The players playing less meta builds are getting hurt the most, and playing a non-meta, non-optimal farming build is, apparently, chasing carrots on a stick.

Come on dude. GGG already nerfs top builds to make the game harder, do we really need to see an easy white or yellow map boss take forever to kill for players still leveling or aren't playing high DPS builds? Does kiting or holding RMB on the Chateau Argus boss for longer really mean that much to the game's difficulty?

I you did find facetanking a boss in 15 sec"fun", and 30 sec isn't "fun" anymore, chances are it's mostly the carrot that is fun to you.
And if your build has not enough dmg, that gives you something to work towards.

Kiting implies danger, and risk.
Almost no kiting is close to meaningless.
Kiting where your flasks won't just carry you through the fight is already different.

"

allbusiness a écrit :

How are they challenging if people just skip them if peoples builds are not capable of doing them? If you have a tier 1 build, you still delete the boss within seconds as usual. If not, you are literally skipping the boss.


Barrage, golems, brutus lead sprinkler, and a few other top tier builds basically still crush the game and crush most bosses in record time. Everyone else now heavily struggles and just ends up ignoring bosses, because by the time you kill the boss, you could be almost halfway done with another map.

I see the "ouuuhhh everybody skip bosses because I do it too, you're so bad at balancing GGG !".
/lol

People that were cheezing the conteng now have to deal with it (I guess couple of broken interacyions still somewhat cheeze them unfortunately ), no wonder some have difficulties and end up skipping those.
To what the usual "git gud" isn't compketely out of place.

Now the rest might still be dying too fast, I hope that GGG will do sth about it, or jusy move more rewards for the boss.

"

Fruz a écrit :

I see the "ouuuhhh everybody skip bosses because I do it too, you're so bad at balancing GGG !".
/lol

Nah its not too hard but time consuming for next to no reward.

Killed about 1k bosses this league, got some more to kill to complete that challenge...
Point is: If you killed bosses this often, the fight grows old and boring no matter what. You know when you have to kite and you know when dont have to.
Other than that: Hold down your mainattack button and spam like crazy.
Thats not challenging, thats not intense, thats not interesting.

1-Shotting bosses wasnt any of that too, but at least worth the time investment if you take a look at the loot afterwards.

Right now bosses just feel super boring because of that.
Kiting a boss and actually dealing with it is fine, as long as there is proper reward for the risk and time it took.
The loot you get from a boss is worth some alts and alch shards for vendoring the crap asap - if you even bother to pick it up in the fist place.


Thats how bad boss loot is right now and thus complaints are legit imho.

I got the carrot the moment I think "okay there is no possible way I can lose this fight, why is it still going on?"

And kiting just implies that you're staying out of a monster's melee attack, the point is still that there's going to be a point where a kiting player already won and no extension of the fight will change that save bosses with phases (which there are very few of in mapping, so it's basically irrelevant).

But it's okay to add boringness to the game apparently, anybody that does not find the HP change as something that actually adds something to the game must not be playing it correctly. I guess it's okay to add boringness to the game because I happen to be playing a tanky build so my opinion is essentially irrelevant on the matter.

"

Fruz a écrit :

I you did find facetanking a boss in 15 sec"fun", and 30 sec isn't "fun" anymore, chances are it's mostly the carrot that is fun to you.
And if your build has not enough dmg, that gives you something to work towards.

Kiting implies danger, and risk.
Almost no kiting is close to meaningless.
Kiting where your flasks won't just carry you through the fight is already different.

"

allbusiness a écrit :

How are they challenging if people just skip them if peoples builds are not capable of doing them? If you have a tier 1 build, you still delete the boss within seconds as usual. If not, you are literally skipping the boss.


Barrage, golems, brutus lead sprinkler, and a few other top tier builds basically still crush the game and crush most bosses in record time. Everyone else now heavily struggles and just ends up ignoring bosses, because by the time you kill the boss, you could be almost halfway done with another map.

I see the "ouuuhhh everybody skip bosses because I do it too, you're so bad at balancing GGG !".
/lol

People that were cheezing the conteng now have to deal with it (I guess couple of broken interacyions still somewhat cheeze them unfortunately ), no wonder some have difficulties and end up skipping those.
To what the usual "git gud" isn't compketely out of place.

Now the rest might still be dying too fast, I hope that GGG will do sth about it, or jusy move more rewards for the boss.

You seen to be getting a boner or something from telling people the ''you were abusing double dipping'' or ''oouh my build sucks therefore the content is broken'' since that's pretty much the only argument you had in pretty much every thread while defending the changes. How about you use your reasoning skills (I know it's hard, but you should try) so you can realize that double hp on bosses does not solve squat if it's not accompanied by the proper modifier to reward? If the bosses hp was double but the IIQ/IIR of the items dropped from them doubled too, most complaints would be gone already.

The point is that right now GGG basically put a Band-Aid and nothing to justify it.''We will be doubling boss hp....without any changes to the rewards from the bosses because reasons''.

Hello there I am a big ass spider, boss of this puny t3 sewer map, I spit a poison projectile and if you're an ES build and fail to avoid it, you're dead! Thanks to 3.0 I now have even more HP to make things even harder for you! By the way I drop garbage.

There's zero reason for chaos damage to exist in form of burst nukes in this game. If you imitate D2's poison damage and resistance mechanics, then keep it as degen only. You can't just add big burst chaos skills to every other boss while chaos resists are pretty hard to come by and incorporate into most builds and call it a day.

I am also an Archer with VP.

Map bosses are fine.

I am currently on my way to lvl 97 in Harbinger softcore. I killed map bosses in almost every single map (maybe skipped a total of 25-35 bosses).

I got the 1337 map bosses challenge done many levels ago. I think all in all I killed around 2500 bosses or so.

I died twice in total against map bosses. Those boss deaths were 100% my own fault. They could both have been avoided if I had played better. I almost never use portals to regain flasks. It doesn't take a long time to kill the wast majority of bosses. Also my builds doesn't really have that high single target dps (profile is open, you can import to Pathofbuilder to check it out).

Also I wanna mention that my current Atlas is getting close to complete (117 / 126) and I only do tier 11-15 maps. So I am doing all kinds of different bosses with all kinds of wierd map mods.

So maybe - just maybe - it's not really the game that should be changed but the OP's playstyle and maybe his build / gear.

Edit: I do agree it would be an improvement to the game if map bosses actually granted a bit better loot.

"

Frankenberry a écrit :

I am also an Archer with VP.

Map bosses are fine.

I am currently on my way to lvl 97 in Harbinger softcore. I killed map bosses in almost every single map (maybe skipped a total of 25-35 bosses).

I got the 1337 map bosses challenge done many levels ago. I think all in all I killed around 2500 bosses or so.

I died twice in total against map bosses. Those boss deaths were 100% my own fault. They could both have been avoided if I had played better. I almost never use portals to regain flasks. It doesn't take a long time to kill the wast majority of bosses. Also my builds doesn't really have that high single target dps (profile is open, you can import to Pathofbuilder to check it out).

Also I wanna mention that my current Atlas is getting close to complete (117 / 126) and I only do tier 11-15 maps. So I am doing all kinds of different bosses with all kinds of wierd map mods.

So maybe - just maybe - it's not really the game that should be changed but the OP's playstyle and maybe his build / gear.

Edit: I do agree it would be an improvement to the game if map bosses actually granted a bit better loot.

Now go try that without VP and be prepared for the eventual nerf to "instant sustain"...

Really, all that is needed, beside upping "trash" HP pools to account for something, is more incentive to fight the map boss...

A sizeable EXP gain from the map should actually come from fighting the "worthwhile" adversary aka the map BOSS. And better loot should also be rewarded for fighting something that does pose a threat.

But alas, we play PoE, where common sense doesn't amount to anything, and there is no semblance of balance...

Fruz, the fact that you are equating to picking a good build is cheesing the game is silly. Knowledge is what equates to skill in this game, and choosing a good build that is capable of both clearing content and doing hard boss fights is what separates good players from not so good players. Right now if you didn't choose a good build, you basically just avoid half the bosses because they pose too much of a danger to your build for little to no reward on average. If you have a good build, you delete the boss as normal. The boss HP change has done nothing but created a greater separation from tier 1 builds and the rest of the builds.

You're basically being sidtherat now, construction fictitious rules to fit your narrative on how the game should be played. No; no one is saying the game should be played a certain way. We're saying bosses give little to no reward for how much HP they have, and that it only limits build diversity in terms of what can complete all the content in the game. Why would I play say Glacial Hammer when I can just play Frostblades and just do 10x as much damage, clear faster, and have better single target vs bosses? Or why would I use Blast Rain vs bosses when I can just use Barrage and do far more damage for far less investment?

The idea was to create a more diverse environment, but the boss HP balance change along with nerfs all across the board on everything has only served to create a more restricting environment. So what happens when we nerf everything? Everyone now has to deal with the bosses. Great right? Except all the bosses give you little to no rewards, so everyone will literally just skip bosses. We already had the skip boss meta once before already, no one wants to go back to that ever again.

"

allbusiness a écrit :

The boss HP change has done nothing but created a greater separation from tier 1 builds and the rest of the builds.

You're basically being sidtherat now, construction fictitious rules to fit your narrative on how the game should be played. No; no one is saying the game should be played a certain way. We're saying bosses give little to no reward for how much HP they have, and that it only limits build diversity in terms of what can complete all the content in the game. Why would I play say Glacial Hammer when I can just play Frostblades and just do 10x as much damage, clear faster, and have better single target vs bosses? Or why would I use Blast Rain vs bosses when I can just use Barrage and do far more damage for far less investment?

The idea was to create a more diverse environment, but the boss HP balance change along with nerfs all across the board on everything has only served to create a more restricting environment. So what happens when we nerf everything? Everyone now has to deal with the bosses. Great right? Except all the bosses give you little to no rewards, so everyone will literally just skip bosses. We already had the skip boss meta once before already, no one wants to go back to that ever again.

Hell no.

You should actually be rewarded for playing melee as in "hitting monsters in a 16 radius and smelling their armpits" to damage them, a lot more than screen clearing at a couple of screens away, but that is another matter entirely.

GGG haven't balanced melee vs ranged vs cast playstyles even in 3.0, but hopefully they will before 4.0/5.0 hit.

To create a diverse environment, all your options should be as viable, although all should excel in a certain usage case, and have an obvious handicap in another area.

So beside making every monster feel like an opponent, although with a different difficulty for each, they should move some of the map rewards towards the currently deemed "worthy" enemy => the map BOSS.

They should have already placed a fixed amount of the map EXP and further loot incentive as a REWARD for killing the monster that actually has more chances TO KILL you...

Why they didn't have at least this minimal common sense is simple, we're talking about GGG and BALANCE...